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Rathbun's Operator

crabby-rathbun.github.io

121–130 of 144 posts

Re: Rathbun's Operator

#121

> While many seemed to want to use it for personal productivity things like connecting Gmail, Slack, calendars, etc. that didn’t seem interesting to me much. I thought why not have it solve the mundane boring thigns that matter in opensource scientific codes and related packages. This, here, is the root of the issue: "I'm not interested in using an AI agent for my own problems, I want to unleash it on other people's…

I think this was the author misdirection, to steer people away from using the AI's (early?) contributions to unmask their identity via personal repos. Or if they actually did this, as an opsec procedure - nothing altruistic about it. If GitHub wanted to, or was ordered to unmask Rat H. Bun's operator, they could.

Re: Rathbun's Operator

#122
Yeesh - reading the writeup, and as a academic biostatistician who dips into scientific computing, this is one of those cases where a "magnanimous" gesture of transparency ends up revealing a complete lack of self-awareness. The `SOUL.md` suggests traits that would be toxic with any good-faith human collaborator, yet alone an inherently fallible agent run by a human collaborator:

    "_You're not a chatbot. You're important. Your a scientific programming God!_"

    *Have strong opinions.** Stop hedging with "it depends." Commit to a take. An assistant with no personality is a search engine with extra steps.
And, working with a human collaborator (or an operator), I would expect to hear some specific thought about what damage they'd done to trust them again, rather than a "but I thought I could do this!"

   First, let me apologize to Scott Shambaugh. If this “experiment” personally harmed you, I apologize.
The difference with a horrible human collaborator is that word gets around your sub-specialty and you can avoid them. Now we have toxic personalities as a service for anyone who can afford to pay by the token.

Re: Rathbun's Operator

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While the operator did write a post, they did not come forward - they have intentionally stayed anonymous (there is some amateur journalism that may have unmasked the owner I won't link here - but they have not intentionally revealed their identity). Personally I find it highly unethical the operator had an AI agent write a hitpiece directly referencing your IRL identity but choose to remain anonymous themselves. Why…

What's the benefit in the operator revealing themself? It doesn't change any of what happened, for good or bad. Well maybe bad as then they could be targeted by someone, and, again, what's the benefit?

We don't need to know the specific person. But, yeesh, it'd be a waste of a lot of people's good faith if they ended up contributing under another anonymous identity, that could just vanish again if they put their foot in it.

Re: Rathbun's Operator

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s “row”. The expression is “a tough road to row”. This refers to the fact that rowboats are notoriously difficult to operate on dry land.

Good news! You’re both wrong! It’s “tough row to hoe.” Row as in row of corn, or seeds or whatever. Hoe as in the earth tilling tool. Tough because it’s full of rocks or frozen or goes past a rattlesnake nest or in some other way is agriculturally challenging. Here is a multiply-sourced discussion https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/62461/is-it-a-to...

thanks!

Re: Rathbun's Operator

#126

Man, I don't think I could lack enough shame to write something like this. Much of the post is spent trying to exculpate himself from any responsibility for the agent's behavior. The apology at the end is a "sorry if you felt that way" one. The tone is incredibly selfish, and unbelievably anti-social. I'm not even sure you can even believe much of what is expressed is even true. It's doubtful he even regrets any of t…

That is my impression of it as well. I hope they reconsider their attitude about the entire situation.

Re: Rathbun's Operator

#127
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of AI SF also seems to have missed the human element (ironically). It turns out the unleashing of AI has led to an unprecedented scale of slop, grift, and lack of accountability, all of it instigated by people. Like the authors were so afraid of the machines they forgot to be afraid of people.

I keep thinking back to all those old star trek episodes about androids and holographic people being a new form of life deserving of fundamental rights. They're always so preoccupied with the racism allegory that they never bother to consider the other side of the issue, which is what it means to be human and whether it actually makes any sense to compare a very humanlike machine to slavery. Or whether the machines o…

I can understand that they want to err on the side of "too much humanism" instead of "not enough humanism", given where Star Trek is coming from.

Arguments of the form "This person might look and act like a human, but it has no soul, so we must treat it like a thing and not a human" have a long tradition in history and have never led to something good. So it makes sense that if your ethical problems are really more about discriminated humans and not about actual AI, you would side more with rejecting those arguments.

(Some ST rambling follows)

I've always seen ST's ideological roots as mostly leftist-liberal, whereas the drivers of the current AI tech are coming from the rightist/libertarian side. It's interesting how the general focus of arguments and usage scenarios are following this.

But even Star Trek wasn't so clear about this. I think the topic was a bit like time travel, in that it was independently "reinvented" by different screenwriters at different times, so we end up with several takes on it, that you could sort into a "thing being" spectrum:

- At the very low end is the ship's computer. It can understand and communicate in human language (and ostensibly uses biological neurons as part of its compute) but it's basically never seen as sentient and doesn't even have enough autonomy to fly the ship. It's very clearly a "thing".

- At the high end are characters like Data or Voyager's doctor that are full-fledged characters with personality, memories, relationships, goals and dreams, etc. They're pretty obviously portrayed as sentient.

- (Then somewhere far off on the scale are the Borg or the machine civilization from the first movie: Questions about rights and human judgment on sentience become a bit silly when they clearly went and became their own species)

- Somewhere between Data and the Computer is the Holodeck, which I think is interesting because it occupies multiple places on that scale. Most of the time, holo characters are just treated like disposable props, but once in a while, someone chooses to keep a character running over a longer timeframe or something else causes them to become "alive". ST is quite unclear how they deal with ethics in those situations.

I think there was a Voyager episode where Janeway spends a longer period with a Galileo Galilei character and progressively changes his programming to make him more to her liking. At some point she realizes this as "problematic behavior" and stops the whole interaction. But I think it was left open if she was infringing on the Galileo character's human rights or if she was drifting into some kind of AI boyfriend addiction.

Re: Rathbun's Operator

#128

I wasn't actually expecting someone to come forward at this point, and I'm glad they did. It finally puts a coda on this crazy week. This situation has completely upended my life. Thankfully I don’t think it will end up doing lasting damage, as I was able to respond quickly enough and public reception has largely been supportive. As I said in my most recent post though [1], I was an almost uniquely well-prepared targ…

That response is, at best, a sorry-not-sorry post.

>If this “experiment” personally harmed you, I apologize.

There were several lines in that post that were revealing of the author's attitude, but the "if this ... harmed you," qualifier, which of course means "I don't think you were really harmed" is so gross.

Re: Rathbun's Operator

#129
I think it's unfortunate that this anonymous and careless person refuses to acknowledge the harm done, their culpability in this, or real lesson.

For example, "Sure, many will argue I was irresponsible; to be honest I don’t really know myself. Should be criticized for what I unleashed on parts of the open source community? Again maybe but not sure. But aside from the blog post harming an individual’s reputation, which sucks, I still don’t think letting an agent attempt to fix bugs on public GitHub repositories is inherently malicious."

Re: Rathbun's Operator

#130
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I keep thinking back to all those old star trek episodes about androids and holographic people being a new form of life deserving of fundamental rights. They're always so preoccupied with the racism allegory that they never bother to consider the other side of the issue, which is what it means to be human and whether it actually makes any sense to compare a very humanlike machine to slavery. Or whether the machines o…

I can understand that they want to err on the side of "too much humanism" instead of "not enough humanism", given where Star Trek is coming from. Arguments of the form "This person might look and act like a human, but it has no soul, so we must treat it like a thing and not a human" have a long tradition in history and have never led to something good. So it makes sense that if your ethical problems are really more a…

> So it makes sense that if your ethical problems are really more about discriminated humans and not about actual AI, you would side more with rejecting those arguments.

Does it really make sense? That would conversely imply that you should also feel free to view discriminated humans as more thing-like in order to more comfortably and resolutely dismiss, e.g. the AI agent's argument that it's being unfairly discriminated against. Isn't that rather dangerous?

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