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A Programmer's Loss of Identity

ratfactor.com

121–130 of 184 posts

Re: A Programmer's Loss of Identity

#121

> If the problem is that we’ve painted our development environments into a corner that requires tons of boilerplate, then that is the problem. We should have been chopping the cruft away and replacing it with deterministic abstractions like we’ve always done. That’s what that Larry Wall quote about good programmers being lazy was about. It did not mean that we would be okay with pulling a damn slot machine lever a co…

I have rejected a proposal of introducing a mapping library, LLMs can do mapping code very very easily with almost no downsides

ORMs would be my next battle, but SQL injection could become an issue if not treated carefully, so I would still consider libraries like SQLDelight or other SQL first libraries

Re: A Programmer's Loss of Identity

#122

Controversial point - many problems of today's IT industry stem from people taking their job too personal. Do you know many plumbers or doctors who are so connected to their work that they do plumbing or doctoring as a hobby? I personally try to avoid such Programmers when possible, they usually overengineer everything they touch just for the sake of engineering. Without even realizing there is a problem.

There is a middle ground: programmers who want to program as a hobby and do something else for a job. They tend to want small, efficient code that is easy to understand and debug. Unfortunately, most find themselves writing code for a living.

Re: A Programmer's Loss of Identity

#123

I love programming, but the idea of hanging out with and chatting with other programmers as a regular part of my social life leaves me cold. I'm happy to be a part of online conversations about code and hardware and design, but away from the computer ... not really. I'd rather be talking about food, or hiking or travelling or culture or relationships. There have been very few people I've ever met in person that I rea…

Same. I see programming as a way to accomplish some sort of task. When artists hang out, do they spend their time talking about brush strokes or editing techniques? From my experience not really, they talk about the higher up stuff. Themes or storytelling or influences are what they usually talk about. I want to operate on the higher plane.

I don’t know about artists but writers do seem to talk about low level details a lot. Not just themes or whatever

Re: A Programmer's Loss of Identity

#124
While I also share the sentiment with the author, I can't help but notice that the article is picturing things as more dramatic than they really are.

What's been happening to software development from the 2010s onwards is closer to what happened to manual craftsmanship as the industrial revolution took off, than to the effects high-level programming languages and abstractions had on the field. Many attempts have been made to turn software development teams into assembly lines; between ultra high-level frameworks and AI, we've had all those "new-new" formal methodologies and extreme offshoring, for example. Another factor that contributed to the status quo is the fact that programming has become well-paid, which inevitably attracted people who are in it for the money and made it an attractive target for "cost optimization".

Not all hope is lost, however. There are two significant differences that set programming apart from traditional crafts: performance and security. There's no universal recipe for either—LLMs and large bloated orgs suck equally at both. Smaller players still can largely outperform behemoths if they have the right idea, similar to what WhatsApp did to Microsoft's Skype or to what Anthropic is now doing to OpenAI, Google and Microsoft. And as for security, just look at Apple's and Google's bug bounties.

At its core, software development is still a meritocracy. This hasn't changed despite the trillions of dollars that have been poured into making it a quantifiable problem. Organizations that refuse to accept this have their projects fail. As for the influx of money-oriented programmers, it might have skewed the proportions, but it definitely did not drive out all of the passionate ones. Keep your head up.

Also, I must say I like the irony of this post making it to the front page of a website that's usually full of headlines of the likes of "How I used Claude to code a revolutionary JavaScript framework running 100% on Amazon Lambda" :)

Re: A Programmer's Loss of Identity

#125
> Which is to say that the pleasure I get from programming is mostly about learning the underlying truths about computation and applying what I’ve learned. Always improving the craft. This, to me, is the practice of programming

My very hot take is that I do more of this now that I have access to Claude code than I did before. The above is the fun part of programming. You know how they say wood working is 90% sanding? Well Claude automates the sanding. You could use it to automate the fun parts too, but you probably shouldn't, for 2 reasons: Claude knows sanding, he's great at sanding. Other stuff? Not so much! He's happy to try, but he's just not great at it!

And secondly, while you could have Claude do the fun parts, where's the fun in that?

Re: A Programmer's Loss of Identity

#126

Controversial point - many problems of today's IT industry stem from people taking their job too personal. Do you know many plumbers or doctors who are so connected to their work that they do plumbing or doctoring as a hobby? I personally try to avoid such Programmers when possible, they usually overengineer everything they touch just for the sake of engineering. Without even realizing there is a problem.

This seems like an analogy in bad faith. How would plumbing as a hobby even make sense?

Compare to jobs like writers, scientists, carpenters, mechanics, etc that are much closer to programmers in spirit and do have a lot of people doing them in their free time.

Re: A Programmer's Loss of Identity

#127

> Which is to say that the pleasure I get from programming is mostly about learning the underlying truths about computation and applying what I’ve learned. Always improving the craft. This, to me, is the practice of programming My very hot take is that I do more of this now that I have access to Claude code than I did before. The above is the fun part of programming. You know how they say wood working is 90% sanding?…

The problem is your boss makes you automate the fun parts as well.

Re: A Programmer's Loss of Identity

#128
> We should have been chopping the cruft away and replacing it with deterministic abstractions like we’ve always done. That’s what that Larry Wall quote about good programmers being lazy was about. It did not mean that we would be okay with pulling a damn slot machine lever a couple times to generate the boilerplate.

I can finally put into words my frustration with NixOS. The most elegant solution to the ultimate problem already exists, yet no one is actually interested in solving the problem! In the end, we just got another convoluted system of incomprehensible boilerplate to wrap the existing boilerplate with, and incompatibilities are resolved just-in-time with more boilerplate.

Re: A Programmer's Loss of Identity

#129

> Which is to say that the pleasure I get from programming is mostly about learning the underlying truths about computation and applying what I’ve learned. Always improving the craft. This, to me, is the practice of programming. I guess when you get to a certain age (I'm 45) I stop caring whether something like this has social value. I enjoy it anyways. Wanting to know how things work always brings me back. I don't c…

> I feel like I got into programming when it was seen as low-status profession in the late 80s.

No, you didn't! If you are 45, then you were 5-10 years old in the late 80s. You might have started playing around with programming at that time, but you didn't "get into" it in any professional sense. I am willing to bet anything that you had no knowledge, let alone concept, of the professional status of programming at that time.

Re: A Programmer's Loss of Identity

#130
As much as I enjoy AI, this does resonate with me. I would be much happier if ChatGPT weren’t invented and I spent my weekends reading programming books instead of vibe coding.

Unfortunately, I’m convinced this is where the industry is heading. my job pays me to solve problems efficiently, not to have opinions on idiomatic Java

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