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MinIO repository is no longer maintained

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Re: MinIO repository is no longer maintained

#121

Post by luke5441 »

espenb wrote: post #119
luke5441 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The listing is perhaps in line with the first two "s". It seems it always iterates through all files, reads the "meta.json", then filters?

Yes, indeed. The list operation is expensive. The S3 spec says that the list output needs to be sorted. 1. All filenames are read. 2. All filenames are sorted. 3. Pagination applied. It doesn't scale obviously, but works ok-ish for a smaller data set. It is difficult to do this efficiently without introducing complexity. My applications don't use listing, so I prioritised simplicity over performance for the list oper…

Maybe mention it somewhere as a limitation, so it is not used for use-cases where listing is important and there are many objects?

Listing was IMO a problem with minio as well, but maybe it is not that important because it seems to have succeeded anyway.

Re: MinIO repository is no longer maintained

#122

Post by account42 »

627467 wrote: post #107
growse wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a social contract, which for many people is a moral contract.

Show me a FOSS license where a commitment to indefinite maintenance is promised.

Social contracts are typically unwritten so the license would be the wrong place to look for it.

Re: MinIO repository is no longer maintained

#123

Post by StopDisinfo910 »

darkwater wrote: post #117
StopDisinfo910 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who paid for your software don't really have a right to lord you around. You can chose to be accommodating because they are your customers but you hold approximately as much if not more weight in the relationship. They need your work. It's not so much special treatment as it is commissioned work. People who don't pay are often not really invested. The relationship between more work means more costs doesn't exi…

I'm probably projecting the idea I have of myself here but if someone says > every exchange is about what's best for humanity and the public in general it means that they are the kind of individual who deeply care for things to work, relationships to be good and fruitful and thus if they made someone pay for something, they think they must listen to them and comply their requests, because well, they are a paying cust…

There is no tension there.

You can care about the work and your customer will still setting healthy boundaries and accepting that wanting to do good work for them doesn't mean you are beside them.

Business is fundamentally about partnership, transactional and moneyed partnerships, but partnership still. It's best when both suppliers and customers are aware of that and like any partnership, it structured and can be stopped by both partners. You don't technically owe them more than what's in the contract and that puts a hard stop which is easy to identify if needed.

Re: MinIO repository is no longer maintained

#124

Post by account42 »

StopDisinfo910 wrote: post #73
growse wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a social contract, which for many people is a moral contract.

Where is this mythical social contract found? I stand by my point: it's a software license, not a marriage. Free users certainly would like it to be a social contract like I would like to be gifted a million dollars. Sadly, I still have to work and can't infinitely rely on the generosity of others.

Where is the contract to return the shopping cart to the corral?

Re: MinIO repository is no longer maintained

#125

Post by mattbee »

This has been on the cards for at least a year, with the increasingly doomy commits noted by HN.

Unfortunately I don't know of any other open projects that can obviously scale to the same degree. I built up around 100PiB of storage under minio with a former employer. It's very robust in the face of drive & server failure, is simple to manage on bare hardware with ansible. We got 180Gbps sustained writes out of it, with some part time hardware maintenance.

Don't know if there's an opportunity here for larger users of minio to band together and fund some continued maintenance?

I definitely had a wishlist and some hardware management scripts around it that could be integrated into it.

Re: MinIO repository is no longer maintained

#126

Post by account42 »

StopDisinfo910 wrote: post #60
einpoklum wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ultimately, dealing with people who don't pay for your product is not fun. I find it the other way around. I feel a bit embarrassed and stressed out working with people who have paid for a copy of software I've made (which admittedly is rather rare). When they haven't paid, every exchange is about what's best for humanity and the public in general, i.e. they're not supposed to get some special treatment at the expe…

People who paid for your software don't really have a right to lord you around. You can chose to be accommodating because they are your customers but you hold approximately as much if not more weight in the relationship. They need your work. It's not so much special treatment as it is commissioned work. People who don't pay are often not really invested. The relationship between more work means more costs doesn't exi…

Legally speaking, accepting payment makes it very clear that there is a contract under which you have obligations, both explicitly spelled out and implied.

Re: MinIO repository is no longer maintained

#127

Post by entuno »

black3r wrote: post #49
jychang wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the difference is the latter means "it is no longer maintained", and the former is "they claim to be maintaining it but everyone knows it's not really being maintained".

in theory "maintenance mode" should mean that they still deal with security issues and "no longer maintained" that they don't even do that anymore... unless a security issue is reported it does feel very much the same...

"Critical security fixes may be evaluated on a case-by-case basis" didn't exactly give much confidence that they'd even be doing that.

Re: MinIO repository is no longer maintained

#128

Post by account42 »

palata wrote: post #114
ForHackernews wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe open source developers should stop imagining the things they choose to give away for free as "products". I maintain a small open source library. It doesn't make any money, it will never make any money, people are free to use or not as they choose. If someone doesn't like the way I maintain the repository they are free to fork it.

Agreed, but that's only half of it. The second half is that open source users should stop imagining the things they choose to use for free as "products". Users of open source often feel entitled, open issues like they would open a support ticket for product they actually paid for, and don't hesitate to show their frustration. Of course that's not all the users, but the maintainers only see those (the happy users are…

I think this gets complicated when you have larger open source projects where contributors change over time. By taking over stewardship of something that people depend on you should have some obligation to not intentionally fuck those people over even if you are not paid for it.

This is also true to some extend when it's a project you started. I don't think you should e.g. be able to point to the typical liability disclaimer in free software licenses when you add features that intentionally harm your users.

Re: MinIO repository is no longer maintained

#129

Post by orphea »

imiric wrote: post #104
krystalgamer wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's not about the money. for large open source projects you need to allocate time to deal with the community. for someone that just wants to put code out there that is very draining and unpleasant. most projects won't ever reach that level though.

> it's not about the money OP sure makes it sound like it's about the money. > for someone that just wants to put code out there that is very draining and unpleasant. I never understood this. Then why publish the code in the first place? If the goal is to help others, then the decent thing would be to add documentation and support the people who care enough to use your project. This doesn't mean bending to all their…

  > but a certain level of communication and collaboration is core to the idea of open source.
Ugh, no. Open source is "I made something cool, here, you can have it too", anything beyond that is your own expectations.

Re: MinIO repository is no longer maintained

#130

Post by account42 »

imiric wrote: post #104
krystalgamer wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's not about the money. for large open source projects you need to allocate time to deal with the community. for someone that just wants to put code out there that is very draining and unpleasant. most projects won't ever reach that level though.

> it's not about the money OP sure makes it sound like it's about the money. > for someone that just wants to put code out there that is very draining and unpleasant. I never understood this. Then why publish the code in the first place? If the goal is to help others, then the decent thing would be to add documentation and support the people who care enough to use your project. This doesn't mean bending to all their…

> I never understood this. Then why publish the code in the first place? If the goal is to help others, then the decent thing would be to add documentation and support the people who care enough to use your project.

Because these things take entirely different skill sets and the latter might be a huge burden for someone who is good at the former.

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