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Polis: Open-source platform for large-scale civic deliberation

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Re: Polis: Open-source platform for large-scale civic deliberation

#121

Post by clcaev »

theroncross wrote: post #118
malux85 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it requires me to leave the house, that increase in friction will mean I will vote maybe on 1/100th what I would otherwise vote on. I suspect pretty much everyone is the same

This is true of methods that don't require you to leave the house as well. Internet forums of all types are dominated by frequent users (by definition). People who are doing other things (working, raising families, living with disabilities that make participation difficult) are under-represented. Most of us just want someone with culturally normal values and competency to take care business. Many democratic systems d…

In my experience, neighborhood and municipal governance often works unreasonably well with life-long public servants who, even if not be the most brilliant of us, diligently work every day like the rest of us.

Technology must assist local, bottom-up governance, rather than being supplanted.

Re: Polis: Open-source platform for large-scale civic deliberation

#122

Post by judahmeek »

Zaskoda wrote: post #45
worldsayshi wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe we can solve both anonymity + proof-of-humanity using zero-knowledge proofs that act as intermediary between a trusted identity provider and the service provider. I.e. you get a digital id but you use it to generate proofs rather than handing out your identity. Right?

Related: https://www.proofofpersonhood.how/

The algorithm used here is ring verifiable random functions, which only provides plausible deniability, nothing more.

Proof of personhood would require proof that every entity in the ring was an actual person.

Re: Polis: Open-source platform for large-scale civic deliberation

#123

Post by nathan_compton »

theroncross wrote: post #118
malux85 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it requires me to leave the house, that increase in friction will mean I will vote maybe on 1/100th what I would otherwise vote on. I suspect pretty much everyone is the same

This is true of methods that don't require you to leave the house as well. Internet forums of all types are dominated by frequent users (by definition). People who are doing other things (working, raising families, living with disabilities that make participation difficult) are under-represented. Most of us just want someone with culturally normal values and competency to take care business. Many democratic systems d…

"Culturally normal values" is such a crazily loaded phrase. I personally don't have a strong desire to see people with culturally normal values be in charge, since, as far as I can tell, the "normal" person is neither very smart nor very thoughtful.

Re: Polis: Open-source platform for large-scale civic deliberation

#124

Post by tracker1 »

goda90 wrote: post #12

What are some strategies a platform like this can take against spam or influence bots? Tying real life identities to users would certainly limit that(though identity theft and account selling could still happen), but that adds friction to joining, poses security risks, and many people might feel less comfortable putting their opinions openly online where backlash could impact real life.

I'm also somewhat curious about how "hateful content" is defined... I mean having a serious discussion on policies around children in schools and sport regarding trans issues has been labelled in some circles as hateful content if it doesn't blindly support the most progressive views.

I'm just using this as a specific example. Not saying that there aren't hateful sentiments or people behind comments or positions... only that depending on how such policies are interpreted you can't even debate sensitive issues.

Re: Polis: Open-source platform for large-scale civic deliberation

#125

Post by tracker1 »

clcaev wrote: post #116

Thirty years ago I was enthusiastic about what we now call liquid democracy . Elders, to whom I spoke that lived through WWII, saw dynamic+direct democracy as extremely dangerous. I now share their opinion. To have a healthy world, we need to start with democratic engagement on every block, of every district in every city, in all counties of every province, in all nations across every continent of our shared planet.…

I'm of a similar mindset... pure/liquid democracy is literally rule by mob. It can only amplify choices made by feeling over substance.

As an ideal, I've always favored a libertarian mindset... my freedom should extend so far as it doesn't impede on another's rights. Which is a really broad interpretation... I think the further we allow govt to get away from that, the worse things get over time. Freedom is important.

Re: Polis: Open-source platform for large-scale civic deliberation

#126

Post by tracker1 »

sellmesoap wrote: post #105
longfacehorrace wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So a local ballot box. Host a platform like this at city hall, county building, capitol building, schools. Only a human can access a terminal. Have humans monitor ingress/egress. A more generalized solution that solves the specific problem inherent to all these digital ones.

Makes it hard for those with disabilities, overbearing work hours and family commitments, folks in the most need to have their voice heard?

And this is different from current town halls how? If you have an important issue to you, there are ways to be heard, and they aren't always convenient.

This is how representative democracy is meant to work... you work/talk with your local representatives who work as part of a larger body on your behalf. Part of the problem in the US is we stopped growing the House of Representatives, which should be about 4-5x the size that it currently is, so you have much closer local representatives.

Re: Polis: Open-source platform for large-scale civic deliberation

#127

Post by tracker1 »

tamimio wrote: post #52

Assuming this platform ever get popular, it will succumb to the same problems that we see everyday on social media, botting, shilling, manipulation, fear tactics, celebrity following, you name it, and I am not sure we can get rid of these on a technical level, rather, on culture and education levels. Also, the graph feature, it seems a bit suspicious, it feels like it will be used to see where the majority of opinion…

It will be overrun by those who have no job, family or responsibilities... it would be a free for all mess.

Re: Polis: Open-source platform for large-scale civic deliberation

#128

Post by longfacehorrace »

nathan_compton wrote: post #123
theroncross wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true of methods that don't require you to leave the house as well. Internet forums of all types are dominated by frequent users (by definition). People who are doing other things (working, raising families, living with disabilities that make participation difficult) are under-represented. Most of us just want someone with culturally normal values and competency to take care business. Many democratic systems d…

"Culturally normal values" is such a crazily loaded phrase. I personally don't have a strong desire to see people with culturally normal values be in charge, since, as far as I can tell, the "normal" person is neither very smart nor very thoughtful.

It's "culturally normal" for first worlders like us to thoughtlessly dump production of material needs on 12 year old sweatshop workers in Asia.

You have a point but I am not sure it is the one you intended.

Re: Polis: Open-source platform for large-scale civic deliberation

#129

Post by sellmesoap »

tracker1 wrote: post #126
sellmesoap wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Makes it hard for those with disabilities, overbearing work hours and family commitments, folks in the most need to have their voice heard?

And this is different from current town halls how? If you have an important issue to you, there are ways to be heard, and they aren't always convenient. This is how representative democracy is meant to work... you work/talk with your local representatives who work as part of a larger body on your behalf. Part of the problem in the US is we stopped growing the House of Representatives, which should be about 4-5x the s…

My experience with my local town hall is that they are realestate developers looking to green light their nepo-projects, they don't even know the basic nomenclature of a committee. And when they want to borrow $90,000,000 to make a survailance center at a bad interest rate for a population of ~100,000 and the locals lose their shit over it, the first thing they try to do is ditch the process that allowed the people to petition to say no to the project. The last city manager and then the CFO -> inturm manager have been fired for inapproprate use of city funds (or being a different skin color in one case, I can't tell from the news reports.) And town hall meetings are held adjacent to a rough homeless hangout and an elevator or two deep for those with mobility issues. So I have hope that things like polis can help, my local system needs a flush out. Bots are a scourage for stuff like this as well, so deffinetly a complex problem space!

Re: Polis: Open-source platform for large-scale civic deliberation

#130

Post by keybored »

tracker1 wrote: post #125
clcaev wrote: post #116

Thirty years ago I was enthusiastic about what we now call liquid democracy . Elders, to whom I spoke that lived through WWII, saw dynamic+direct democracy as extremely dangerous. I now share their opinion. To have a healthy world, we need to start with democratic engagement on every block, of every district in every city, in all counties of every province, in all nations across every continent of our shared planet.…

I'm of a similar mindset... pure/liquid democracy is literally rule by mob. It can only amplify choices made by feeling over substance. As an ideal, I've always favored a libertarian mindset... my freedom should extend so far as it doesn't impede on another's rights. Which is a really broad interpretation... I think the further we allow govt to get away from that, the worse things get over time. Freedom is important.

> I'm of a similar mindset... pure/liquid democracy is literally rule by mob.

Rule by people is literally rule by derogatory term for people? The “literally” seems to suggest that this is supposed to communicate more than a personal feeling towards a subject. And yet.

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