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Irish man detained by ICE for 5 months

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Re: Irish man detained by ICE for 5 months

#121

Post by ttfkam »

ghouse wrote: post #8

Due process under the US Constitution protects everyone in the US, not just US citizens.

If the Executive Branch doesn't care about the Constitution and inconvenient laws when directing the law enforcement agencies under its control, Congress doesn't hold the executive to account by either withholding funds or threatening impeachment, and the SCOTUS majority doesn't try to rein in these acts while seeming to lack the ability to enforce its own decisions, the words printed on the Constitution are just useless ink.

Elections have consequences, and we're all paying them. Some paying a lot more than others.

Re: Irish man detained by ICE for 5 months

#122

Post by rayiner »

goatlover wrote: post #107
rayiner wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

America is a nation of immigrants, including Stephen Miller's grandparents. People have tried to make this sort of argument in the past when they didn't want poor Irish, Germans, Italians, Asians looking for opportunity, not to mention there's always been a Latino immigrant population.

You can't invoke America's track record of immigration without noting that, the last time the foreign born population hit present levels, the country pumped the brakes on immigration through restrictive immigration policy that dropped the foreign-born population from 15% in 1920 to under 5% by 1970. The country also aggressively pushed immigrants to abandon their cultural identities and assimilate into Anglo culture.

You also can't overlook that prior waves of mass immigration also caused decades of negative consequences in the meantime, from the emergence of nationality-based political machines in major cities to the Italian mafia. And you can't overlook that mass immigration changed the culture of parts of the country permanently, in many cases for the worse. Immigrants that formed enclaves in New Jersey never fully adopted the American attitudes towards civic society, the role of government, the rule of law, etc., that still exist in pockets of the country like New Hampshire.

Re: Irish man detained by ICE for 5 months

#123

Post by hikkerl »

throw20251220 wrote: post #71
hikkerl wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Why would I condemn people who were wiped by your ancestors? They were the locals, you’re just… temporary. You don’t even care for the land!

It turns out they were temporary too, as they were not able to defend their lands. Now we are the locals.

Again, unless you are going to condemn them for any attempt made in their defence, then you can't condemn us. Be consistent, else it's just plain racism.

Side note: if you think ICE is brutal you should read what early European settlers had to endure...

Re: Irish man detained by ICE for 5 months

#124

Post by seanmcdirmid »

hikkerl wrote: post #123
throw20251220 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would I condemn people who were wiped by your ancestors? They were the locals, you’re just… temporary. You don’t even care for the land!

It turns out they were temporary too, as they were not able to defend their lands. Now we are the locals. Again, unless you are going to condemn them for any attempt made in their defence, then you can't condemn us. Be consistent, else it's just plain racism. Side note: if you think ICE is brutal you should read what early European settlers had to endure...

> Side note: if you think ICE is brutal you should read what early European settlers had to endure...

Or what those settlers made others endure?

Re: Irish man detained by ICE for 5 months

#125

Post by zzrrt »

rayiner wrote: post #54
goatlover wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Australia's mandatory detention is controversial. I don't see why people need to be detained while they have ongoing court cases. I don't see what harm an undocumented person causes by simply being in the country. Most of them are not criminals, they're just here for better living conditions, work opportunities or family. Moving people around detention centers to hide them from lawyers and families, while too often i…

> I don't see why people need to be detained while they have ongoing court cases. Because it turns the immigration system on its head. People come to the U.S., stay for years while court proceedings drag on, and in most cases the government eventually gives up. The U.S. issues 65,000 or so skilled worker visas annually, but over a million people enter illegally. At that point, why even bother having an immigration sy…

> Do you think keeping out criminals is why we have an immigration system?

A person should be forgiven for thinking so, with government figures constantly invoking Laken Riley et al, and generally saying we’re being invaded by violent criminals and they’re going after “the worst of the worst.”

Since the administration is catching up on 20-year-old violations, I look forward to — only for the sake of those skilled workers waiting in line, of course — to Elon Musk being denaturalized, deported, and exit-taxed for his admitted “gray area” period of his immigration journey.

Re: Irish man detained by ICE for 5 months

#126

Post by hikkerl »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #124
hikkerl wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It turns out they were temporary too, as they were not able to defend their lands. Now we are the locals. Again, unless you are going to condemn them for any attempt made in their defence, then you can't condemn us. Be consistent, else it's just plain racism. Side note: if you think ICE is brutal you should read what early European settlers had to endure...

> Side note: if you think ICE is brutal you should read what early European settlers had to endure... Or what those settlers made others endure?

Again, if you're going to condemn Europeans for any actions committed in the course of colonisation and support the natives' right to violent defence of their territory, then you must also grant the current custodians of the territory the right to violent defence against illegal immigrants whose heinous crimes against our people make for often-shocking headlines.

Re: Irish man detained by ICE for 5 months

#127

Post by hikkerl »

throw20251220 wrote: post #113
wang_li wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no single "the locals", every tribe represented a different polity. They warred with each other constantly and conquered and took over land all the time. There is no part of the continent that is held by the original human that arrived here first. Every part has been conquered and reconquered many times. The Europeans are just the latest conquerors. Except in the cases where they literally bought the land. W…

Sure. It still doesn’t change the fact that their ancestors performed a genocide on the natives.

[flagged]

Re: Irish man detained by ICE for 5 months

#128

Post by rayiner »

zzrrt wrote: post #125
rayiner wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't see why people need to be detained while they have ongoing court cases. Because it turns the immigration system on its head. People come to the U.S., stay for years while court proceedings drag on, and in most cases the government eventually gives up. The U.S. issues 65,000 or so skilled worker visas annually, but over a million people enter illegally. At that point, why even bother having an immigration sy…

> Do you think keeping out criminals is why we have an immigration system? A person should be forgiven for thinking so, with government figures constantly invoking Laken Riley et al, and generally saying we’re being invaded by violent criminals and they’re going after “the worst of the worst.” Since the administration is catching up on 20-year-old violations, I look forward to — only for the sake of those skilled wor…

Rhetoric aside, every developed country has an immigration system, and the function is the same everywhere. The principal function is to manage the cultural and economic impact of immigration by controlling total immigrant numbers and filtering for more desirable immigrants. Filtering out criminals is an extreme case of it, but that’s not the be-all-end-all of the immigration system.

Re: Irish man detained by ICE for 5 months

#130

Post by seanmcdirmid »

hikkerl wrote: post #126
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Side note: if you think ICE is brutal you should read what early European settlers had to endure... Or what those settlers made others endure?

Again, if you're going to condemn Europeans for any actions committed in the course of colonisation and support the natives' right to violent defence of their territory, then you must also grant the current custodians of the territory the right to violent defence against illegal immigrants whose heinous crimes against our people make for often-shocking headlines.

Yes, and just like we will eventually be displaced (violently or not) by new arrivals as well, since "might makes right," correct?

It's just how it goes: white settlers kick brown (Indian descended with some European blood) Mexicans off their land, later brown Mexican descendants jump border into the USA to get that land back, white settler descendants kick them away again but demographics means those white settler descendants are going to get displaced one way or the other.

The math of growth curves doesn't lie. Trump is just a last racist hurrah for what was and what isn't meant to be anylonger.

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