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Oregon raised spending by 80%, math scores dropped

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Re: Oregon raised spending by 80%, math scores dropped

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I absolutely think that there is a better way to educate than tests and textbooks...however I'm certain we haven't found the perfect formula, and videos and chromebooks significantly worse. Different is not better.

> absolutely think that there is a better way to educate than tests and textbooks Genuine question: why? Specifically, why with textbooks? Even if textbooks are suboptimal, they’re the way a lot of human information is organized. Just developing the skill of being able to work through a textbook is probably massively productive.

I picked "tests and textbooks" mostly due to the alliteration, and the association with traditional education methods.

The comment was also a bit facecios. I'd be surprised if we have arrived at the absolute best way to do anything - so of course there will be some better way to educate.

Re: Oregon raised spending by 80%, math scores dropped

#122
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Teacher-centered and direct approaches cope quite well with greater class sizes, but again they're unpopular among teachers. Cite. All research I have seen completely contradicts this. The limitation with larger class sizes is not "knowledge transfer"; it's "classroom management" aka dealing with a student causing an interruption for some reason (bathroom, injury, sickness, etc.). I use the Gates Foundation as my p…

How Does Class Size Vary Around the World? (OECD, 2012) shows that there are countries such as Japan and South Korea with some of the largest average class sizes, and excellent educational achievement. Clearly it's far from the only or even the most important factor. The United Kingdom is one country that skews the other way, though there are countries like Estonia with similarly small classes that seem to do a lot b…

I know nothing about those countries ratios.

But on the topic, I suspect the best time to have high teacher ratios is in the earliest years. Help children learn to manage themselves, focus, follow through, etc. Then work up to large class sizes in the upper years.

Re: Oregon raised spending by 80%, math scores dropped

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wisconsin has no collective bargaining for teachers and the unions can't require dues

I stand corrected. Looks like "194 unions (56.2%) hitting the 51% threshold in 2021" after cursory searching. Having said that, it still belies the notion that teacher's unions are single handedly responsible for poor student test results.

I mean the most important factor is the students and their backgrounds. Lots of places will never have good schools or will always have high ranking schools due to the kids attending just being smarter or less so.

That said, the research is quite clear that unions hurt student performance, and if your only goal is improving student performance non-union charter schools seem to be the best option. By giving parents as much choice as possible, parents tend to pick better schools, and poorly run schools are force to lay off staff or go out of business, so better run schools can replace them.

Re: Oregon raised spending by 80%, math scores dropped

#124

Title has been editorialized. In terms of the continuing "education depression" as discussed by this article, we still haven't gotten rid of "No child left behind". Of course kids are less educated than they used to be, you don't need to be educated to graduate. Maine specifically is an important example. There has been no real change in education policy in the state, yet there is still significant reduction in outco…

Do you have any idea what it is that makes her so effective, especially with kid who otherwise wouldn't care?

A good education taught her how to teach. She has a 4 year degree, then some sort of 1-2 year program of being essentially an apprentice, and then you must take several college classes every few years to demonstrate your continued learning, and oddly IMO, the same school that was adopting weird and unproven teaching methods around reading was giving their teachers fairly good yearly workshops about how to teach.

She has a genuine-ness that is palpable, something that I've also inherited. My girlfriend describes it as "You have golden retriever energy" and it gets people engaged with you. She's a very fun teacher.

She treats kids like people, yet the way the interactions go and the way she gets to kids ensures that they still generally respect her. She also used to have an administration that recognized her talent and value, and would stand behind her when a kid was a serious problem. She has helped "bad" kids do better, and helped bullied kids, and has helped needy kids, and this gives her a sort of legendary status. Everyone knows and loves Madame.

She was well experienced dealing with stupid shitheads because she grew up next to my dad's family (lol small towns) and raised three kids that were pains in her ass in diverse ways.

She works her absolute ass off. She habitually showed up to work ten minutes late (ADHD runs in our family quite bad), but the admin ignores that when she is teaching every student in the school and grading assignments until 8pm most nights, and building the curriculum for all the other teachers. I once stayed up with her until early in the morning grading a writing project she had given. Hundreds of students, every year, and she would always know their name and lives and all about them even though she's bad at remembering names otherwise. She was willing to teach kids how grammar worked and how to diagram sentences when they came into her class and didn't know. She was also able because of her education.

She comes from a family tradition that treated education as a total good, something everyone should seek out as much as possible, and something that would lift you up, along with your family, despite ostensibly being a very rural lineage. We have the journal of a woman in our ancestry 200 years back talking about how she learned to read and write because that's just how great education was in general. We aren't nobility or anything that would traditionally do that kind of thing.

A crazy mix of genetics: We are all super neurodivergent and probably super inbred and the latest generation is experiencing crazy illnesses and autoimmune disorders, but my mom's family consistently scores above average on standardized tests and has done so for generations. So she has a good brain to use the things she learned, even though there's tons of "smart" things that isn't so good at. The role of a good educator just happened to really fit well with her mix of beneficial and problematic brain issues.

So, you know, luck. She picked this career path because she was 20 and her marriage failed and she suddenly had to support three kids. Turns out she's really good at it. We aren't ambitious people, but this general theme is the same for my entire extended family.

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