Well thinking hard is still there if you work on hard abstract problems. I keep thinking very hard, even though 4 CCs pump code while I do this. Besides, being a Gary Kasparov, playing on several tables, takes thinking.
I miss thinking hard
121–130 of 764 posts
Re: I miss thinking hard
#122Earlier quoted context omitted.
I dunno, when you've made about 10,000 clay pots its kinda nice to skip to the end result, you're probably not going to learn a ton with clay pot #10,001. You can probably come up with some pretty interesting ideas for what you want the end result to look like from the onset. I find myself being able to reach for the things that my normal pragmatist code monkey self would consider out of scope - these are often not u…
Depends on the problem. If the complexity of what you are solving is in the business logic or, generally low, you are absolutely right. Manually coding a signup flow #875 is not my idea of fun either. But if the complexity is in the implementation, it’s different. Doing complex cryptography, doing performance optimization or near-hardware stuff is just a different class of problems.
In my experience AI is pretty good at performance optimizations as long as you know what to ask for.
Can't speak to firmware code or complex cryptography but my hunch is if it's in it's training dataset and you know enough to guide it, it's generally pretty useful.
Re: I miss thinking hard
#123To be honest, I do not quite understand the author's point. If he believes that agentic coding or AI has negative impact on being a thinker, or prevent him from thinking critically, he can simply stop using them. Why blame these tools if you can stop using them, and they won't have any effect on you? In my case, my problem was often overthinking before starting to build anything. Vibe coding rescued me from that cycl…
For me personally, the problem is my teammates. The ability or will to critically think, or investigate existing tools in the codebase seems to disappear. Too often now I have to send back a PR where something is fixed using novel implementations instead of the single function call using existing infrastructure.
Re: I miss thinking hard
#124This March 2025 post from Aral Balkan stuck with me: https://mastodon.ar.al/@aral/114160190826192080 "Coding is like taking a lump of clay and slowly working it into the thing you want it to become. It is this process, and your intimacy with the medium and the materials you’re shaping, that teaches you about what you’re making – its qualities, tolerances, and limits – even as you make it. You know the least about wha…
And when programming with agentic tools, you need to actively push for the idea to not regress to the most obvious/average version. The amount of effort you need to expend on pushing the idea that deviates from the 'norm' (because it's novel), is actually comparable to the effort it takes to type something out by hand. Just two completely different types of effort. There's an upside to this sort of effort too, though…
Yet another example of "comments that are only sort of true because high temperature sampling isn't allowed".
If you use LLMs at very high temperature with samplers which correctly keep your writing coherent (i.e. Min_p, or better like top-h, P-less decoding, etc), than "regression to the mean" literally DOES NOT HAPPEN!!!!
Re: I miss thinking hard
#125Great, so does that mean that it is time to vibe code our own alternatives of everything such as the Linux kernel because the AI is sure 'smarter' than all of us?
Seen a lot of DIY vibe coded solutions on this site and they are just waiting for a security disaster. Moltbook being a notable example.
That was just the beginning.
Re: I miss thinking hard
#126This March 2025 post from Aral Balkan stuck with me: https://mastodon.ar.al/@aral/114160190826192080 "Coding is like taking a lump of clay and slowly working it into the thing you want it to become. It is this process, and your intimacy with the medium and the materials you’re shaping, that teaches you about what you’re making – its qualities, tolerances, and limits – even as you make it. You know the least about wha…
Eloquent, moving, and more-or-less exactly what people said when cameras first hit the scene.
> Eloquent, moving, and more-or-less exactly what people said when cameras first hit the scene.
This is a non sequitur. Cameras have not replaced paintings, assuming this is the inference. Instead, they serve only to be an additional medium for the same concerns quoted:
The process, which is an iterative one, is what leads you
towards understanding what you actually want to make,
whether you were aware of it or not at the beginning.
Re: I miss thinking hard
#127I refer to it as "Think for me SaaS", and it should be avoided like the plague. Literally, it will give your brain a disease we haven't even named yet.
It's as if I woke up in a world where half of resturaunts worldwide started changing their name to McDonalds and gaslighting all their customers into thinking McDonalds is better than their "from scratch" menu.
Just dont use these agentic tools, they legitimately are weapons who's target is your brain. You can ship just as fast with autocomplete and decent workflows, and you know it.
Its weird, I dont understand why any self respecting dev would support these companies. They are openly hostile about their plans for the software industry (and many other verticles).
I see it as a weapon being used by a sect of the ruling class to diminsh the value of labor. While im not confident they'll be successful, I'm very disappointed in my peers that are cheering them on in that mission. My peers are obviously being tricked by promises of being able join that class, but that's not what's going to happen.
You're going to lose that thinking muscle and therefor the value of your labor is going to be directly correlated to the quantity and quality of tokens you can afford (or be given, loaned!?)
Be wary!!!
Re: I miss thinking hard
#128Earlier quoted context omitted.
Eloquent, moving, and more-or-less exactly what people said when cameras first hit the scene.
> Eloquent, moving, and more-or-less exactly what people said when cameras first hit the scene. This is a non sequitur. Cameras have not replaced paintings, assuming this is the inference. Instead, they serve only to be an additional medium for the same concerns quoted: The process, which is an iterative one, is what leads you towards understanding what you actually want to make, whether you were aware of it or not a…
Cameras have not replaced paintings, assuming this is the inference.
You wouldn't have known that, going by all the bellyaching and whining from the artists of the day.
Guess what, they got over it. You will too.
Re: I miss thinking hard
#129Earlier quoted context omitted.
And when programming with agentic tools, you need to actively push for the idea to not regress to the most obvious/average version. The amount of effort you need to expend on pushing the idea that deviates from the 'norm' (because it's novel), is actually comparable to the effort it takes to type something out by hand. Just two completely different types of effort. There's an upside to this sort of effort too, though…
Yet another example of "comments that are only sort of true because high temperature sampling isn't allowed". If you use LLMs at very high temperature with samplers which correctly keep your writing coherent (i.e. Min_p, or better like top-h, P-less decoding, etc), than "regression to the mean" literally DOES NOT HAPPEN!!!!
How do you configure LLM température in coding agents, e.g. opencode?
Re: I miss thinking hard
#130You don't have to miss it, buy a differential equation book and do one per day. Play chess on hard mode. I mean there's so many ways to make yourself think hard daily, this makes no sense.
It's like saying I miss running. Get out and run then.