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Pretty soon, heat pumps will be able to store and distribute heat as needed

sintef.no

121–130 of 243 posts

Re: Pretty soon, heat pumps will be able to store and distribute heat as needed

#121

Where I live we need a way to store and distribute cold as needed.

They are a very efficient way to get both AC and Heating:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7J52mDjZzto

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zrx-b2sLUs

Unless you live in a cold climate, they are worth it for a discounted energy bill =3

Re: Pretty soon, heat pumps will be able to store and distribute heat as needed

#122
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know how you cook your lasagna, but cooking for longer at a lower temperature usually results in more even heating than cooking for less long at a higher temperature. (This is one of the reasons microwaves are so terrible at heating evenly.) If you're not already, that may help. (I also imagine using the circulation in a convection oven might help as well. Also, preheating your oven! Even if it's a toaster ov…

Microwave tip: Use the power button to select a lower power level, and cook the food for longer.

toroidal lasagne microwaves better

Re: Pretty soon, heat pumps will be able to store and distribute heat as needed

#123
post #109

It uses phase change (solid to liquid) to store heat at about 200 kJ/kg. Compare this to heating water in a boiler from 10c to 60c - stores 209 kJ/kg. So we already have an effective way to store heat which can work for decades without servicing and is also cheap to produce (in terms of money and energy consumption).

I feel stagnant water would be more annoying for maintenance than something like salt hydrates.

Re: Pretty soon, heat pumps will be able to store and distribute heat as needed

#124

I've been keeping an eye on heat pump water heaters for awhile, but right now they mostly make sense in warm climates. The big problem is they're still specialty products and marked up like crazy, but also they tend to use cheap components which makes them loud and prone to failure. If you run A/C for the majority of the year then they pay themselves back reasonably quick, barring early failure, but in colder climate…

We somewhat accidentally ended up with a good combo: we have a ventless heat pump dryer, and a heat pump water heater, also in the laundry room. So when doing laundry, the water heater cools the room while the dryer heats it, so they roughly cancel out.

As an aside, HP dryers are really elegant tech, and it's a shame they're not more common. They use the heat pump not just to heat the air in the dryer, but also to condense the moisture back out of it, so just the water can be drained away instead of needing to exhaust the air outside. So you need much less energy overall, and you don't need a dryer vent. The only downside is they're a bit slower, but ours has a resistive backup option for when you need clothes dry asap, so really it's just price.

Re: Pretty soon, heat pumps will be able to store and distribute heat as needed

#125
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Afaik heat-pumps in the EU can provide unlimited hot water–what am I missing?

Geothermal (and airbased) pumps theoretically do not have unlimited heating capacity. For example my pump (Daikin Altherma Geo 3) has a 180 litre water tank so it can ”only” supply 180 litres hot water at 65 degrees Celsius and takes about a minute to heat two additional lites. So if I want to quickly scald myself in a 400 litre pool at fifty degrees I can’t. But if I had a gas heater that would be possible!

Depends on how you measure unlimited. My hot water heater can pretty much indefinitely supply hot water for a single shower head with a modern water saving design. It can heat faster than 1.2 gallons/minute

Re: Pretty soon, heat pumps will be able to store and distribute heat as needed

#126
post #105
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What did you heat with before?

Certainly not gas or oil, which are still cheaper to heat with than heat pumps.

Modern heat pumps are cheaper than oil for heating just about everywhere. They're cheaper than natural gas in most places, unless electricity prices where you live are particularly high.

Re: Pretty soon, heat pumps will be able to store and distribute heat as needed

#128

I've been keeping an eye on heat pump water heaters for awhile, but right now they mostly make sense in warm climates. The big problem is they're still specialty products and marked up like crazy, but also they tend to use cheap components which makes them loud and prone to failure. If you run A/C for the majority of the year then they pay themselves back reasonably quick, barring early failure, but in colder climate…

We somewhat accidentally ended up with a good combo: we have a ventless heat pump dryer, and a heat pump water heater, also in the laundry room. So when doing laundry, the water heater cools the room while the dryer heats it, so they roughly cancel out. As an aside, HP dryers are really elegant tech, and it's a shame they're not more common. They use the heat pump not just to heat the air in the dryer, but also to co…

Heat pump dryers work at a much lower heat as well since much of the heating of a traditional dryer is lost out of the vent. The heat pump condenses the water out of the hot air so you don't lose the heat.

I've stopped needing to sort my clothes out as a result, I used to hate putting synthetics in a regular dryer because they get worn out so fast that way.

Re: Pretty soon, heat pumps will be able to store and distribute heat as needed

#129
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know how you cook your lasagna, but cooking for longer at a lower temperature usually results in more even heating than cooking for less long at a higher temperature. (This is one of the reasons microwaves are so terrible at heating evenly.) If you're not already, that may help. (I also imagine using the circulation in a convection oven might help as well. Also, preheating your oven! Even if it's a toaster ov…

Microwave tip: Use the power button to select a lower power level, and cook the food for longer.

Only works adequately if your microwave is the rarer kind that actually lowers the power (inverter), instead of just switching between 100% and 0% repeatedly.

Re: Pretty soon, heat pumps will be able to store and distribute heat as needed

#130
post #109

It uses phase change (solid to liquid) to store heat at about 200 kJ/kg. Compare this to heating water in a boiler from 10c to 60c - stores 209 kJ/kg. So we already have an effective way to store heat which can work for decades without servicing and is also cheap to produce (in terms of money and energy consumption).

There are also existing commercially-available residential units (e.g. Ecombi or Steffes) using ceramic bricks that are in the ~450 kJ/kg range.
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