Has anyone ever walked down the road in a white t-shirt with huge red STOP sign printed on the back? Would Tesla immediately stop? I am sure this has been tested before...
Autonomous cars, drones cheerfully obey prompt injection by road sign
121–130 of 212 posts
Re: Autonomous cars, drones cheerfully obey prompt injection by road sign
#122I should probably confess that as someone who lives in an area with a lot of construction work, I'm also very vulnerable to "prompt injection" when there's a person standing on the middle of the road holding a sign telling me to change course.
Re: Autonomous cars, drones cheerfully obey prompt injection by road sign
#123Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s an interesting question because the benefits of automation aren’t necessarily shared early on. If you can profitably sell a shirt for 10$ while everyone else needs to sell for 20$ there’s no reason to actually charge 10$ you might as well charge 19.95$ and sell just as many shirts for way more money. So if society is actually saving 5c/shirt while “losing” 9$ in labor per shirt. On net society could be worse off…
In regards to both the Luddites and the farmers, you seem to forget the most important factor. Food. In the case of the Luddites, it was a literal case of their children being threatened with starvation. "Livelihood" at the time was not fungible. The people affected could not just go apply at another industry. And there were no social services to help them eat during the transition period. As for the farmers, any gov…
The luddites food requirements didn’t provide them with popular support.
Similarly US agricultural output could be cut in half without serious negative consequences. Far more corn ends up as ethanol than our food and we export vast quantities of highly subsidized food to zero benefit. Hell ethanol production costs as much in fossil fuels as we get ethanol from it, it’s literally pure wasted effort.
Rational policy would create a large scale food shortage and then let market forces take over. We could have 10 years of food on hand for every American at way less expensive than current policy with the added benefit of vastly reducing the negative externalities of farming such as depleting aquifers.
Re: Autonomous cars, drones cheerfully obey prompt injection by road sign
#124Earlier quoted context omitted.
4 ways stops should be roundabouts, but the US is allergic to them for some reason.
At this point in time, why can't we do smart crossings? Like have some sensors and software to change lights based on real-time traffic conditions.
You don't have this? In Sweden we have sensors to detect cars, pedestrians and bicycles to shift the lights as appropriate. During rush-hour those features are turned off/discarded in favor of "grid optimized" timings. In Netherlands they prioritize pedestrians and cyclists when it's raining.
We also have LED lights in our traffic lights which I've come to understand is a saftey hazard in USA because snow falls sometimes.
Re: Autonomous cars, drones cheerfully obey prompt injection by road sign
#125Earlier quoted context omitted.
The only places where a 4-way stop has room to make a roundabout are places where there is not enough traffic for it to matter either way. The biggest obstacle is that there are just too many 4-way stops in urban areas where there is no space left to make a roundabout, you would have to tear down buildings. I don't think that is a valid argument in that scenario.
> The only places where a 4-way stop has room to make a roundabout are places where there is not enough traffic for it to matter either way. You have clearly never heard of a mini-roundabout. They just work. https://thumbsnap.com/sc/u7J6PdTJ.jpg https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a75806ae5274...
The more I look at that... Isn't that basically just a four-way yield, and the markings are mostly superfluous? You're basically doing the same motions in a regular intersection.
I guess that's the point, and the markings are just to give drivers the intuition of treating it like a regular roundabout (yield to your left [or right in the picture]).
Re: Autonomous cars, drones cheerfully obey prompt injection by road sign
#126Earlier quoted context omitted.
Right but it's not like a 4 way stop is going to perform better. In the same case you'd expect it to be a 2 way stop.
> Right but it's not like a 4 way stop is going to perform better. A 4 way stop does perform better than a roundabout given highly disparate traffic volumes, because roundabouts suffer from resource starvation in that scenario, but 4 way stops are starvation-free.
If this is the case you can install stop lights and traffic sensing at roundabout ingress points, you can also provide a "turn right" lane that bypasses the roundabout entirely. Intersections are dangerous.
Re: Autonomous cars, drones cheerfully obey prompt injection by road sign
#127One year in my city they were installing 4-way stop signs everywhere based on some combination of "best practices" and "screeching Karens". Even the residents don't like them in a lot of places so over time people just turn the posts in the ground or remove them. Every now and the I'll GPS somewhere and there will be a phatom stop sign in the route and I chuckle to myself because it means the Google car drove through…
Screwing with a stop sign because you don't like it is a great way to end up on the wrong end of a huge civil liability lawsuit
lol the idea that any enforcement to that degree exists in the US is a fiction.
Re: Autonomous cars, drones cheerfully obey prompt injection by road sign
#128Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not really, as those attacks discussed here would not work on humans.
your bias is showing. humans would certainly almost do anything they are told to do when the person acts confidently.
I had a construction worker absolutely screaming at me to go through an intersection and refusing to look where I was pointing, when I was correctly waiting for a pedestrian to cross.
So, naturally, I ran over the pedestrian.
Re: Autonomous cars, drones cheerfully obey prompt injection by road sign
#129Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The only places where a 4-way stop has room to make a roundabout are places where there is not enough traffic for it to matter either way. You have clearly never heard of a mini-roundabout. They just work. https://thumbsnap.com/sc/u7J6PdTJ.jpg https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a75806ae5274...
The more I look at that... Isn't that basically just a four-way yield, and the markings are mostly superfluous? You're basically doing the same motions in a regular intersection. I guess that's the point, and the markings are just to give drivers the intuition of treating it like a regular roundabout (yield to your left [or right in the picture]).
Yes. The markings are part of the road language. E.g. the X in the road with Keep Clear doesn’t actually do anything. It won’t keep you clear. You have to keep clear when you read it.
Re: Autonomous cars, drones cheerfully obey prompt injection by road sign
#130Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The only places where a 4-way stop has room to make a roundabout are places where there is not enough traffic for it to matter either way. You have clearly never heard of a mini-roundabout. They just work. https://thumbsnap.com/sc/u7J6PdTJ.jpg https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a75806ae5274...
The more I look at that... Isn't that basically just a four-way yield, and the markings are mostly superfluous? You're basically doing the same motions in a regular intersection. I guess that's the point, and the markings are just to give drivers the intuition of treating it like a regular roundabout (yield to your left [or right in the picture]).
> the markings are mostly superfluous? You're basically doing the same motions in a regular intersection.
The image linked, yes. However I've never seen one quite like that in the US. Instead where I'm at we have a small circular barrier in the center of the intersection (and some very eye catching reflectors) that you actually have to drive around. It's a very good design (imo) because it physically forces vehicles to slow down and swerve so there's no way to inadvertently blow through it at speed the way that sometimes happens with a 4 way stop on a long straightaway in the dead of night.
The space requirement is only slightly higher than the one linked above, still much less than a proper full size roundabout. It's basically a cement barrier sticking 1/4 of the way into your lane.