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Tesla’s autonomous vehicles are crashing at a rate much higher tha human drivers

electrek.co

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Re: Tesla’s autonomous vehicles are crashing at a rate much higher tha human drivers

#121

Post by concinds »

fabian2k wrote: post #6

As long as there are still safety drivers, the data doesn't really tell you if the AI is any good. Unless you had reliable data about the number of interventions by the driver, which I assume Tesla doesn't provide. Still damning that the data is so bad even then. Good data wouldn't tell us anything, the bad data likely means the AI is bad unless they were spectacularly unlucky. But since Tesla redacts all information…

The "safety drivers" do nothing. They sit in the passenger seat and the only thing they have is a button that presumably stops the car and lets a remote operator take over.

Re: Tesla’s autonomous vehicles are crashing at a rate much higher tha human drivers

#122

Post by k4rli »

AlexandrB wrote: post #97
LunicLynx wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I think Tesla should be transparent, this article doesn't really make sure it is comparing apples to apples either. I think its weird to characterize it as legitimate and the say "Go Tesla convince me ohterwise" as if the same audience would ever be reached by Tesla or people would care to do their due diligence.

Tesla (Elon Musk really) has a long history of distorting the stats or outright lying about their self driving capabilities and safety. The fact that folks would be skeptical of any evidence Tesla provided in this case is a self-inflicted problem and well-deserved.

He did promise his electric trucks to be more cost-effective than trains (still nothing in 2026...). And "world's fastest supercar". And full self-driving by "next year" in 2015. None of these are offered in 2026.

There have never been truthful statements from his companies, only hype & fluff for monetary gains.

Re: Tesla’s autonomous vehicles are crashing at a rate much higher tha human drivers

#123

Post by razingeden »

jacquesm wrote: post #32
razingeden wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>One crash in this context is going to just completely blow out their statistics. One crash in 500,000 miles would merely put them on par with a human driver. One crash every 50,000 miles would be more like having my sister behind the wheel. I’ll be sure to tell the next insurer that she’s not a bad driver - she’s just one person operating an itty bitty fleet consisting of one vehicle! If the cybertaxi were a human d…

> One crash in 500,000 miles would merely put them on par with a human driver. > One crash every 50,000 miles would be more like having my sister behind the wheel. I'm not sure if that leads to the conclusion that you want it to.

It does. She just ran over a bus shelter, like she was vibe driving a Tesla on autopilot or something.

Re: Tesla’s autonomous vehicles are crashing at a rate much higher tha human drivers

#124

Post by nemomarx »

giorgioz wrote: post #100

Yes on one side Tesla is not transparent but on the other side the author of the article is an hypocrite given they went with the click-bait title "Tesla’s own Robotaxi data confirms crash rate 3x worse than humans even with monitor" Tesla secrecy is likely due to avoid journalists taking any chance they can to sell more news by writing an autonomous vehicles horror story. Given the secrecy we don't know what happene…

Secrecy clearly doesn't avoid that kind of story though. The question is if their numbers were really good, or at least as good as Waymo, why wouldn't they share them for the positive press? Waymo doesn't get as many negative pieces like this.

It's a pretty logical conclusion to say that numbers they won't share must make them look bad in some way.

Re: Tesla’s autonomous vehicles are crashing at a rate much higher tha human drivers

#125

Post by razingeden »

z7 wrote: post #7

The comparison isn't really like-for-like. NHTSA SGO AV reports can include very minor, low-speed contact events that would often never show up as police-reported crashes for human drivers, meaning the Tesla crash count may be drawing from a broader category than the human baseline it's being compared to. There's also a denominator problem. The mileage figure appears to be cumulative miles "as of November," while the…

Oh. Well then. May we see the details of these minor contact events so that people don’t have to come here and lie for them anymore?

How corrupt and unaccountable to the public is the city of Austin Texas, even, for allowing them to turn in incident reports like this?

Re: Tesla’s autonomous vehicles are crashing at a rate much higher tha human drivers

#126

Post by cbeach »

tzs wrote: post #62
cbeach wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We tend to defend companies that push the frontiers of self-driving cars, because the technology has the potential to save lives and make life easier and cheaper for everyone. As engineers, we understand that the technology will go from unsafe, to par-with-humans, to safer-than-humans, but in order for it to get to the latter, it requires much validation and training in an intermediate state, with appropriate safegua…

Note: this is in response to https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46823760 which is from the same commenter but got killed before there was time to post any links refuting its claims. > The "salute" in particular is simply a politically-expedient freeze-frame from a Musk speech, where he said "my heart goes out to you all" and happened to raise his arm. I could provide freeze-frame images of Obama and Hilary Clinton…

When Musk starts invading neighbouring countries and rounding up ethnic minorities for extermination you can call him a Nazi with some legitimacy.

On the other hand, what you're trying to extrapolate here seems somewhat contrived.

Re: Tesla’s autonomous vehicles are crashing at a rate much higher tha human drivers

#127

Post by bevekspldnw »

ryandvm wrote: post #81

Tesla has completely fumbled a spectacular lead in EVs and managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. And instead of turning it around, we're supposed to believe they are going to completely pivot and then take over a market with far more developed competitors (e.g. Boston Dynamics). That Elon is riding this wave amidst the transparency of the whole thing is the funniest part. It's like watching people lose m…

…and the guy shuffling the cups is Dave Chappell’s crackhead character.

My theory has always been Trumps grand con was acting like what poor people thought a rich person was like, Elon acts like what morons think a genius is like.

Re: Tesla’s autonomous vehicles are crashing at a rate much higher tha human drivers

#128

Post by SJMG »

ryandvm wrote: post #81

Tesla has completely fumbled a spectacular lead in EVs and managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. And instead of turning it around, we're supposed to believe they are going to completely pivot and then take over a market with far more developed competitors (e.g. Boston Dynamics). That Elon is riding this wave amidst the transparency of the whole thing is the funniest part. It's like watching people lose m…

I'm not sure how defensible the lead was. The only reason BYD isn't the only game in town is tariffs. The pivot to Optimus is ridiculous though. They can't get a car to drive truly autonomously after more than a decade and they want to expand the degrees of freedom?

Re: Tesla’s autonomous vehicles are crashing at a rate much higher tha human drivers

#129

Post by peebeebee »

lvl155 wrote: post #23

I am so tired of people defending Tesla. I’ve wrote off Tesla long time ago but what gets me are the people defending their tech. We all can go see the products and experience them. The tech needs to be at least 100x more error free vs humans. It cannot be on par with human error rate.

Tesla was THE company that started the EV-revolution, while VW was actively manipulating emission data.

I don't like Elon and his politics, but I'm very grateful for Tesla to have shaken up the car industry. Everyone is better for it.

Re: Tesla’s autonomous vehicles are crashing at a rate much higher tha human drivers

#130

Post by cbeach »

kreetx wrote: post #85
z7 wrote: post #7

The comparison isn't really like-for-like. NHTSA SGO AV reports can include very minor, low-speed contact events that would often never show up as police-reported crashes for human drivers, meaning the Tesla crash count may be drawing from a broader category than the human baseline it's being compared to. There's also a denominator problem. The mileage figure appears to be cumulative miles "as of November," while the…

electrek.co has a beef with Tesla, at least in the recent years.

Absolutely.

Let's examine the Elektrek editor's feed, to understand how "impartial" he is about Tesla:

https://x.com/FredLambert

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