Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

My Mom and Dr. DeepSeek (2025)

restofworld.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 160 posts

Re: My Mom and Dr. DeepSeek (2025)

#121

Post by throwaway173738 »

avree wrote: post #28
reenorap wrote: post #18

I and many of my friends have used ChatGPT extremely effectively to diagnose medical issues. In fact, I would say that ChatGPT is better than most doctors because most doctors don't actually listen to you. ChatGPT took the time to ask me questions and based on my answers, narrowed down a particularly scary diagnosis and gave excellent instructions on how to get to a local hospital in a foreign country, what to ask fo…

No, no, no. You can change your doctor, and get one that listens to you - you can't change the fact that ChatGPT has no skin in the game - no reputation, no hippocratic oath, no fiscal/legal responsibility. Some people have had miracles with Facebook groups, or WebMD, but that doesn't change where the role of a doctor is or mean that you should be using those things for medical advice as opposed to something that all…

Indeed you might have to for a variety of reasons that have nothing to do with your quality of care. I’ve had to do so a few times now.

Re: My Mom and Dr. DeepSeek (2025)

#122

Post by pigpop »

District5524 wrote: post #116

I don't understand: if there is a shortage of doctors, why are we trying to solve that by training AI models modelled on influencers that spits out (hopefully improving) advice at 10x the rate of a human doctor? Is it impossible for highly advanced societies like ours to pay more for people to get trained as doctors, nurses or whatever is missing? Or to convince them to choose a profession that deals with other human…

Shortages of doctors have many causes that differ based on the country. While paying them more may help in some countries you also have to figure out how to convince doctors to live in smaller towns and cities and in less desirable provinces/states within a country. The source of the problem is that doctors are people and people have their own preferences and motivations for doing the things they do. Trying to convince even a handful of above average competency doctors to live in a remote region with bad weather and few amenities for more than a few years will be extremely difficult even if you offer them large sums of money (which aren't generally available anyways) because they have to weigh their own health and happiness in the balance when deciding where to live and practice.

Re: My Mom and Dr. DeepSeek (2025)

#123

Post by [deleted] »

spicyusername wrote: post #117
District5524 wrote: post #116

I don't understand: if there is a shortage of doctors, why are we trying to solve that by training AI models modelled on influencers that spits out (hopefully improving) advice at 10x the rate of a human doctor? Is it impossible for highly advanced societies like ours to pay more for people to get trained as doctors, nurses or whatever is missing? Or to convince them to choose a profession that deals with other human…

Making new doctors takes decades, lots of policy changes with uncertain outcomes, and demographic shifts nobody controls. Using ChatGPT takes... nothing, it's already here. Not too surprising to see one and not the other. Also, the kinds of changes that result in more doctors don't tend to get media coverage. That's that boring, keep the lights on, politics that modern rage-bait driven media abhors, so it may even st…

[deleted]

Re: My Mom and Dr. DeepSeek (2025)

#124

Post by D7E0119908C212 »

repiret wrote: post #41

I'm reminded of the monologue from Terminator 2: > Watching John with the machine, it was suddenly so clear. The Terminator would never stop, it would never leave him... it would always be there. And it would never hurt him, never shout at him or get drunk and hit him, or say it couldn't spend time with him because it was too busy. And it would die to protect him. Of all the would-be fathers who came and went over th…

What is interesting about the decision of the Terminator not to continue this role as a father-figure for John (aside from the requirement to destroy it's embedded Skynet technology), was that it explicitly understood that while it could and would do all those things to protect him, it lacked the emotional intelligence needed to provide a supportive development environment for an child/adolescent.

Specifically:

> I know now why you cry, but it's something I can never do.

While the machine learns what this complex social behavior called 'crying' is, it also learns that it is unable to ever actualize this; it can never genuinely care for John, any relationship would be a simulation of emotions. In the context of a child learning these complex social interactions, having a father-figure who you knew wasn't actually happy to see you succeed, sad to see you cry ...

Re: My Mom and Dr. DeepSeek (2025)

#125

Post by dfxm12 »

pigpop wrote: post #122
District5524 wrote: post #116

I don't understand: if there is a shortage of doctors, why are we trying to solve that by training AI models modelled on influencers that spits out (hopefully improving) advice at 10x the rate of a human doctor? Is it impossible for highly advanced societies like ours to pay more for people to get trained as doctors, nurses or whatever is missing? Or to convince them to choose a profession that deals with other human…

Shortages of doctors have many causes that differ based on the country. While paying them more may help in some countries you also have to figure out how to convince doctors to live in smaller towns and cities and in less desirable provinces/states within a country. The source of the problem is that doctors are people and people have their own preferences and motivations for doing the things they do. Trying to convin…

A state should work to ensure everyone lives in a desirable area, doctors & patients.

Re: My Mom and Dr. DeepSeek (2025)

#126

Post by pigpop »

jact wrote: post #114
kingstnap wrote: post #12

> she said she was aware that DeepSeek had given her contradictory advice. She understood that chatbots were trained on data from across the internet, she told me, and did not represent an absolute truth or superhuman authority With highly lucid people like the author's mom I'm not too worried about Dr. Deepseek. I'm actually incredibly bullish on the fact that AI models are, as the article describes, superhumanly em…

A chatbot can’t be empathetic. They don’t feel what you feel. They don’t feel anything. They’re not any more empathetic than my imaginary friend that goes to another school.

Empathy is a highly variable trait in humans, both from one person to the next as well as within the same person depending on their mental state and the people and situation they are dealing with, so I'd bet that most of the time you're not going to get genuine empathy from people either. They may say empathetic sounding things but I doubt there will be any actual feeling behind it. I'm not even sure doctors could function in their jobs if they weren't able to distance themselves from deeply empathizing with their patients, it would just be one heart wracking tragedy after another if you fully immersed yourself in how each patient was feeling when they're at their worst.

Re: My Mom and Dr. DeepSeek (2025)

#127

Post by reenorap »

3rodents wrote: post #34
reenorap wrote: post #18

I and many of my friends have used ChatGPT extremely effectively to diagnose medical issues. In fact, I would say that ChatGPT is better than most doctors because most doctors don't actually listen to you. ChatGPT took the time to ask me questions and based on my answers, narrowed down a particularly scary diagnosis and gave excellent instructions on how to get to a local hospital in a foreign country, what to ask fo…

I agree that absolute deference to doctors is a mistake and that individuals should be encouraged to advocate for themselves (and doctors should be receptive to it) but I'm not so convinced in this specific case. Why do high blood sugar levels matter? Are there side effects associated with the alternative treatment? Has ChatGPT actually helped you in a meaningful way, or has the doctor's eventual relenting made you f…

> Why do high blood sugar levels matter?

I have type 2 diabetes.

> How do we avoid being egged on by ChatGPT into forcing doctors to provide bad care?

I don’t ask it leading questions. I ask “These are my symptoms, give me some guidance.” Instead of “these are my symptoms, I think I have cancer. Could I be right?” If I don’t ask leading questions it keeps the response more pure.

Re: My Mom and Dr. DeepSeek (2025)

#128

Post by smeej »

dfxm12 wrote: post #125
pigpop wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shortages of doctors have many causes that differ based on the country. While paying them more may help in some countries you also have to figure out how to convince doctors to live in smaller towns and cities and in less desirable provinces/states within a country. The source of the problem is that doctors are people and people have their own preferences and motivations for doing the things they do. Trying to convin…

A state should work to ensure everyone lives in a desirable area, doctors & patients.

There are lots of places that are "desirable" to a large-enough-to-be-relevant portion of the population, but not as large a portion as the portion of the population that wants to be doctors. And they may like living there for reasons that someone who is drawn to a career in medicine might be unlikely to share.

Re: My Mom and Dr. DeepSeek (2025)

#129

Post by Propelloni »

District5524 wrote: post #116

I don't understand: if there is a shortage of doctors, why are we trying to solve that by training AI models modelled on influencers that spits out (hopefully improving) advice at 10x the rate of a human doctor? Is it impossible for highly advanced societies like ours to pay more for people to get trained as doctors, nurses or whatever is missing? Or to convince them to choose a profession that deals with other human…

> if there is a shortage of doctors, why are we trying to solve that by training AI models modelled on influencers that spits out (hopefully improving) advice at 10x the rate of a human doctor?

The crucial part is the training. AI may very well be the solution for underserved communities, but not if it is trained on internet rubbish. Train an AI on curated state-of-the-art, scientific data, imagine the expert systems of yore on overdrive, and you will see much better results, including knowing when to call in a human doctor.

Re: My Mom and Dr. DeepSeek (2025)

#130

Post by reenorap »

Calavar wrote: post #73
yunohn wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look, anyone can argue hypotheticals. But if one reads the comment being discussed, it can be deduced that your proposed hypotheses are not applicable, and that the doctor actually acknowledged the side effect and changed medications leading to relief. Now, if the new medication has a more serious side effect, the doctor (or ChatGPT) should mention and/or monitor for it, but the parent has not stated that is the case…

As a physician, I can give further insight. The blood pressure medication the commenter is referring to is almost certainly a beta blocker. The effect on blood sugar levels is generally modest [1]. (It is rare to advise someone with diabetes to stop taking beta blockers, as opposed to say emphysema, where it is common) They can be used for isolated, treatment of high blood pressure, but they are also used for dual tr…

No, it was hydrochlorothiazide.

I replaced it with Lisinopril with no side effects.

Post reply on HN