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Mozilla is building an AI 'rebel alliance' to take on OpenAI, Anthropic

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Re: Mozilla is building an AI 'rebel alliance' to take on OpenAI, Anthropic

#121

Post by rainonmoon »

adrianN wrote: post #101
js8 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it even an attainable goal? It seems an NN with less than say 4 billion parameters will be able to do that. The cost of training will likely go down with more models being available. Unless we lock down the computing for majority of people, I don't see how we can prevent someone creating a CSAM model in their garage. I don't want to see CSAM created, but the totalitarian control required is too much for my taste (…

People can draw naked children with a stick and some dirt. I’m not sure that preventing the creation of fictional csam is the best use of our resources if we want to protect minors from abuse.

The best use? Probably not. But if I built a website that let people generate extremely convincing unlimited photos of you wearing an SS uniform and forcing your dog to smoke meth and sent them to everyone you’ve ever met, this might seem like a less worthy hill to die on. Or is that just a sticks and dirt thing too?

Re: Mozilla is building an AI 'rebel alliance' to take on OpenAI, Anthropic

#122

Post by al_borland »

crystal_revenge wrote: post #53
mittensc wrote: post #10

> Mozilla is focused on deploying its roughly $1.4 billion worth of reserves to support “mission driven” organizations, according to a new report. > The nonprofit, also the parent of Firefox, is investing in artificial intelligence startups that are working on safety and governance issues in AI. Why?, they want to go bankrupt?, do they like burning money? I would understand investing in AI Tech... Brilliant if they u…

> that's governments job Why do people take these AI "safety" research projects at face value? The real reason you need AI that is "safe" and "governable" is so that when you start having it promote advertisers content or support the current administration, you don't have to worry about it going "off the rails" and promoting a competing product to criticizing the administration. I'm sure plenty of researchers in this…

> promote advertisers content ... promoting a competing product

Where is the value of AI when the responses are compromised like this? I could say the same thing about Google Search, which is one of the reasons I stopped using it.

Are we betting on the masses not caring that they're being lied to for profit?

Re: Mozilla is building an AI 'rebel alliance' to take on OpenAI, Anthropic

#123

Post by GuestFAUniverse »

How about training a LLM by distributing workloads to the gazillion of bored gamers via GPU-enabled BOINC jobs? -- not just folding@home

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BOINC_client%E2%80%93server_te...

The estimated are in the 10-100 Petaflop range. Should be good enough for training.

Re: Mozilla is building an AI 'rebel alliance' to take on OpenAI, Anthropic

#124

Post by mrandish »

pseudalopex wrote: post #114
mrandish wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although I haven't looked at the actual reports in a long time, I think that's consistent with my understanding. The Google money (program service revenue) was a much higher percent in the past, creating the $1.4B nest egg. Now the Google money is greatly reduced and the majority of the income is from the nest egg.

I intended the percentages to support your point donations were little of Mozilla Foundation's revenue. But you missed Mozilla Corporation held most assets.

Yes, I didn't take your post as disagreeing. I appreciated the current data since I haven't looked lately.

Re: Mozilla is building an AI 'rebel alliance' to take on OpenAI, Anthropic

#125

Post by jorgenrodder »

rainonmoon wrote: post #121
adrianN wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People can draw naked children with a stick and some dirt. I’m not sure that preventing the creation of fictional csam is the best use of our resources if we want to protect minors from abuse.

The best use? Probably not. But if I built a website that let people generate extremely convincing unlimited photos of you wearing an SS uniform and forcing your dog to smoke meth and sent them to everyone you’ve ever met, this might seem like a less worthy hill to die on. Or is that just a sticks and dirt thing too?

Oddly specific... Did that really actually happen to you?

Re: Mozilla is building an AI 'rebel alliance' to take on OpenAI, Anthropic

#126

Post by estimator7292 »

Insanity wrote: post #91

So much negativity about Firefox in these threads. Could they be doing better? Absolutely, but without them we’d have almost no browser choice today. Even if you don’t care too much about FF itself, they also own the Gecko engine on top of which other browsers are built. Personally I’ve been using Zen for the past year and it’s been a pretty good experience. I should add a disclaimer that I’m not a frontend dev, so c…

Nobody, nobody wants or needs yet another AI startup burning billions of dollars.

We need an alternative to Chrome and a team and leader willing to make that happen.

Mozilla loves to spew endless words about their "mission" to improve the internet. Shoveling more money on the fire that's consuming the entire internet is counterproductive. Do you know what would improve the internet and users' freedoms? A browser that can compete with Chrome.

Mozilla is more interested in fat executive bonuses than actually doing anything.

Re: Mozilla is building an AI 'rebel alliance' to take on OpenAI, Anthropic

#127

Post by ldng »

some_furry wrote: post #60
pseudalopex wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Growing and investing in Firefox remains our biggest priority. Mozilla Corporation’s leading aim is to grow as a meaningful, differentiated browser, trusted by over 200mil people. In 2025 the team made great progress shipping tab groups, vertical tabs, smart tabs, many sidebar integrations with AI companies and more. Mozilla Corp welcomed Anthony Enzor-DeMeo, the first technologist to serve as CEO in over 15 years. I…

> In 2026 there will be a focus on building tools and features for those who want AI, and for those who do not. We are the only browser who does this - and likely the only one that will.[1] I don't want any AI features to exist in the Firefox source code, since this increases Firefox's attack surface for no real gain to the product I want to use. The AI-enabled browser should be a separate product line for people who…

Don't bother. Moz management don't give a shit and haven't been giving a shit for a LONG time. It's like the f*cking magas, the more you tell them no, the more they double down ...

I'm done. Starting to look for an alternative.

Re: Mozilla is building an AI 'rebel alliance' to take on OpenAI, Anthropic

#128

Post by estimator7292 »

epiccoleman wrote: post #67
sparcpile wrote: post #4

The sooner the AI bubble pops and takes all of these companies out, the better the world will be.

Which companies do you expect to be taken out? Google and Microsoft will obviously remain. I have a hard time envisioning that OpenAI or Anthropic will go under - especially Anthropic, who are reportedly raking in billions from Claude subscriptions. Just from my armchair predictions, it's not really any of the juggernauts who have to worry, but rather the many companies springing up to try SaaS offerings with LLMs at…

Mozilla is probably doomed in the long term. I think they're in the exact same boar as Microsoft, and wholly lack the self-reflection required to turn the ship around.

Firefox will continue to languish while Mozilla execs receive 8-figure bonuses until there's nothing left to extract.

Re: Mozilla is building an AI 'rebel alliance' to take on OpenAI, Anthropic

#129

Post by madeofpalk »

js8 wrote: post #89
madeofpalk wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh, I mean, I think we've seen first hand that generally one aspect of safety we want is to not produce sexualised images of children.

Is it even an attainable goal? It seems an NN with less than say 4 billion parameters will be able to do that. The cost of training will likely go down with more models being available. Unless we lock down the computing for majority of people, I don't see how we can prevent someone creating a CSAM model in their garage. I don't want to see CSAM created, but the totalitarian control required is too much for my taste (…

The goal is not to prevent someone from making their own model do what they want, but to prevent your model from doing what you don't want, like generate CSAM or non-consentual sexually explicit photos.

I don't understand how its controversial that someone/some-company might not want their products to be known for that.

Re: Mozilla is building an AI 'rebel alliance' to take on OpenAI, Anthropic

#130

Post by js8 »

madeofpalk wrote: post #129
js8 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it even an attainable goal? It seems an NN with less than say 4 billion parameters will be able to do that. The cost of training will likely go down with more models being available. Unless we lock down the computing for majority of people, I don't see how we can prevent someone creating a CSAM model in their garage. I don't want to see CSAM created, but the totalitarian control required is too much for my taste (…

The goal is not to prevent someone from making their own model do what they want, but to prevent your model from doing what you don't want, like generate CSAM or non-consentual sexually explicit photos. I don't understand how its controversial that someone/some-company might not want their products to be known for that.

It's a bit odd requirement, but.. OK. I mean who is the malicious actor here, the AI, the human user or the AI provider?

If the AI, then we shouldn't give it an agency (user should always vet the output). If it's the user, the AI is irrelevant to the question. And if it's AI provider, why would they train AI on such materials in the first place.

The whole enterprise of this kind of safety doesn't make much sense to me. If the AI is not able to follow so clear user instructions it's not ready for prime time and must be under human supervision at all times. (And subtle hallucinations on topic seem to be both more dangerous and more of a problem than blatant random production of explicit images, anyway.)

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