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Drug trio found to block tumour resistance in pancreatic cancer in mouse models

drugtargetreview.com

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Re: Drug trio found to block tumour resistance in pancreatic cancer in mouse models

#121

Post by cujo1234 »

reenorap wrote: post #6

I keep reading about these advancements in pancreatic cancer like early detection or possible treatments, but nothing ever seems to make it to daylight. Is there a reason why there's such disparity between this?

In addition to the reasons already mentioned (natural difficulties in translating results from animal models to humans), even attempting to achieve the same results in vitro and in animal models is complicated. They estimated that the reproducibility of these studies is approximately 50%. See Errington, T. M., Mathur, M., Soderberg, C. K., Denis, A., Perfito, N., Iorns, E., & Nosek, B. A. (2021). Investigating the replicability of preclinical cancer biology. elife, 10, e71601. https://doi.org/10.7554/eLife.71601

Re: Drug trio found to block tumour resistance in pancreatic cancer in mouse models

#122

Post by boogrpants »

A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #47

> Clinical implications: While more research will be needed before trials in humans can begin Why? Seriously, think about it. Most people with pancreatic cancer have nothing to lose and many of them have just weeks or months to live. Daraxonrasib, Afatinib, and SD36 are molecules that can already be purchased in bulk, and what's the worst that can happen? Our society's morbid, irrational fear of quack medicine causes…

[dead]

Re: Drug trio found to block tumour resistance in pancreatic cancer in mouse models

#124

Post by Nursie »

A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #98
zen928 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO, if you view your question from the ethical framework of "do no harm" i.e. the hippocratic oath instead of "move fast and break things", I can clearly see reason for the apprehension. The standards aren't positioned to catch "quack medicine" but to require full understanding before asking someone else to put something in their bodies. It's somewhat of an entitled stance that youd be okay with other people possibl…

Consider what the oath actually says. > I will not give poison to anyone though asked to do so, nor will I suggest such a plan. Similarly I will not give a pessary to a woman to cause abortion. But in purity and in holiness I will guard my life and my art. Now consider that doctors in Canada and Europe are literally administering MAID as we speak. In other words, administering poison with intent to kill. Further, con…

That's not an oath that many modern doctors will have sworn though -

(From wikipedia) As of 2018, all US medical school graduates made some form of public oath but none used the original Hippocratic Oath.

I imagine the story is similar elsewhere.

Re: Drug trio found to block tumour resistance in pancreatic cancer in mouse models

#125

Post by draw_down »

A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #47

> Clinical implications: While more research will be needed before trials in humans can begin Why? Seriously, think about it. Most people with pancreatic cancer have nothing to lose and many of them have just weeks or months to live. Daraxonrasib, Afatinib, and SD36 are molecules that can already be purchased in bulk, and what's the worst that can happen? Our society's morbid, irrational fear of quack medicine causes…

[dead]

Re: Drug trio found to block tumour resistance in pancreatic cancer in mouse models

#126

Post by nopassrecover »

kulahan wrote: post #112
dyauspitr wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a purely rational world who cares. 4 months is not all that far away from 6 months and with cancer you’d probably prefer to not be alive for those last two months anyway. We should be willing to do Hail Marys with 5-10% chances of success rather than doing absolutely nothing.

You would destroy any inheritance your family might get, or which could be donated to a cause saving a dozen lives, over a 5% chance you don’t die from cancer specifically, which might make you feel unbearably bad until you DO die? Like much worse than you already feel? That’s insanely irrational. Edit: and all of this is before the psychological implications of knowing your time is almost up. People would rather hav…

Sorry what’s the inheritance logic here? Are you talking about life insurance or something? Otherwise, and again presuming the cure doesn’t work which seems absent from your assessment as a possibility, how would it affect someone’s inheritance?

My general understanding is life insurance almost never actually pays out, and if it does it’s after a long fight and for less than you signed up for, and in any case should typically not be the largest portion of your inheritance.

That all aside, taking a risky but possible option that may mean survival, as a conscious and informed decision, even if aware it may void a possibility of a life insurance payout, doesn’t seem like a decision we have more right to make than the person affected by it.

Re: Drug trio found to block tumour resistance in pancreatic cancer in mouse models

#127

Post by serf »

post_break wrote: post #80
dylan604 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what's the worst that can happen? The patient dies from complications of the drug's use before the cancer.

If I had 6 months to live, and had no other options, I wouldn't care if a drug killed me in 10 days. Give me the option.

>If I had 6 months to live, and had no other options, I wouldn't care if a drug killed me in 10 days. Give me the option.

you're not being creative enough.

I agree with compassionate use cases, but be creative here : some drugs can create deaths much more miserable than the controlled burn of a 6 month descent into hospice care surrounded by family and loved ones.

6 months to live versus a possible supportive drug regiment with the side effects being constant pain until you slowly bleed out through your eyes after total sensory lock-in -- easy a choice to make? not for me.

Re: Drug trio found to block tumour resistance in pancreatic cancer in mouse models

#128

Post by tansey »

fragmede wrote: post #101
tansey wrote: post #34

For all the folks complaining about "it's only in mice! things never work in humans!" -- I work at MSK and we definitely have seen success treating PDAC in humans: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-023-06063-y "Why don't I see these treatments hitting the general public?" Because trials like these are phase I/II. Then you need a phase III that takes a long time to recruit a large cohort and has overall survival…

How expensive? Let's say you're Bill Gates or, say, Steve Jobs. What would it cost for someone with their wealth to get that shot?

Somewhere between $500K and $2M for an mRNA vax is my guesstimate. You don't have to hypothesize about what the rich might do, though. The co-founder of GitLab was diagnosed with osteosarcoma a few years ago. He relapsed, leaving him without any standard of care treatments. He's spent the last couple of years throwing loads of time, effort, and of course money at lots of experimental treatments: https://osteosarc.com/ -- even released all the data gathered on his tumor over timepoints.

Re: Drug trio found to block tumour resistance in pancreatic cancer in mouse models

#129

Post by [deleted] »

kulahan wrote: post #112
dyauspitr wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a purely rational world who cares. 4 months is not all that far away from 6 months and with cancer you’d probably prefer to not be alive for those last two months anyway. We should be willing to do Hail Marys with 5-10% chances of success rather than doing absolutely nothing.

You would destroy any inheritance your family might get, or which could be donated to a cause saving a dozen lives, over a 5% chance you don’t die from cancer specifically, which might make you feel unbearably bad until you DO die? Like much worse than you already feel? That’s insanely irrational. Edit: and all of this is before the psychological implications of knowing your time is almost up. People would rather hav…

[deleted]

Re: Drug trio found to block tumour resistance in pancreatic cancer in mouse models

#130

Post by dyauspitr »

nopassrecover wrote: post #126
kulahan wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would destroy any inheritance your family might get, or which could be donated to a cause saving a dozen lives, over a 5% chance you don’t die from cancer specifically, which might make you feel unbearably bad until you DO die? Like much worse than you already feel? That’s insanely irrational. Edit: and all of this is before the psychological implications of knowing your time is almost up. People would rather hav…

Sorry what’s the inheritance logic here? Are you talking about life insurance or something? Otherwise, and again presuming the cure doesn’t work which seems absent from your assessment as a possibility, how would it affect someone’s inheritance? My general understanding is life insurance almost never actually pays out, and if it does it’s after a long fight and for less than you signed up for, and in any case should…

Life insurance has a small 2-5% denial rate and most of those are lying big on the application. What are you talking about.
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