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Vibe coding kills open source

arxiv.org

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Re: Vibe coding kills open source

#121

Post by smrq »

px43 wrote: post #90
tomaytotomato wrote: post #6

I have been trying to use Claude code to help improve my opensource Java NLP location library. However trying to get it to do anything other than optimise code or fix small issues it struggles. It struggles with high level abstract issues. For example I currently have an issue with ambiguity collisions e.g. Input: "California" Output: "California, Missouri" California is a state but also city in Missouri - https://gi…

> it struggles It does not struggle, you struggle. It is a tool you are using, and it is doing exactly what you're telling it to do. Tools take time to learn, and that's fine. Blaming the tools is counterproductive. If the code is well documented, at a high level and with inline comments, and if your instructions are clear, it'll figure it out. If it makes a mistake, it's up to you to figure out where the communicati…

"My Toyota Corolla struggles to drive up icy hills." "It doesn't struggle, you struggle." ???

It's fine to critique your own tools and their strengths and weaknesses. Claiming that any and all failures of AI are an operator skill issue is counterproductive.

Re: Vibe coding kills open source

#122

Post by joks »

echelon wrote: post #33
koakuma-chan wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't trust software that has .claude in its GitHub repo.

You won't have to ignore this stuff for long. Pretty soon it'll be mandatory to keep up. I've been a senior engineer doing large scale active-active, five nines distributed systems that process billions of dollars of transactions daily. These are well thought out systems with 20+ folks on design document reviews. Not all of the work falls into that category, though. There's so much plumbing and maintenance and wiring…

> "The same thing that happened to illustration and art is happening here"

What are you talking about? Illustrators and artists are not being replaced by AI or required to use AI to "keep up" in the vast majority of environments.

> "I don't get the sour opinions."

The reasoning for folks' "sour opinions" has been very well-documented, especially here on HN. This comment reads like people don't like AI because they think it's slow or something, which is not the case.

Re: Vibe coding kills open source

#123

Post by fragmede »

gibspaulding wrote: post #52
alright2565 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally don't have any trouble with that. Using Sonnet 3.7 in Claude Code, I just ask it to spelunk the git history for a certain segment of the code if I think it will be meaningful for its task.

Out of curiosity, why 3.7 Sonnet? I see lots of people saying to always use the latest and greatest 4.5 Opus. Do you find that it’s good enough that the increased token cost of larger/more recent models aren’t worth it? Or is there more to it?

speed > thinking longer for smaller tasks.

Re: Vibe coding kills open source

#124

Post by rglover »

WarmWash wrote: post #29

Small bespoke personalized on the spot apps are the future with LLMs. The future will absolutely not be "How things are today + LLMs" The paradigm now for software is "build a tool shed/garage/barn/warehouse full of as much capability for as many uses possible" but when LLMs can build you a custom(!) hammer or saw in a few minutes, why go to the shed?

Would you trust your hand next to a saw made by an LLM?

Re: Vibe coding kills open source

#125

Post by blibble »

delegate wrote: post #101

There's some irony in the fact that LLMs are in large part possible because of open source software. From the tools which were used to design and develop the models (programming languages, libraries) to the operating systems running them to the databases used for storing training data .. plus of course they were trained mostly on open source code. If OSS didn't exist, it's highly unlikely that LLMs would have been bu…

> If OSS didn't exist, it's highly unlikely that LLMs would have been built.

would anyone want SlopHub Copilot if it had been trained exclusively on Microsoft's code?

(rhetorical question)

Re: Vibe coding kills open source

#126

Post by [deleted] »

avaer wrote: post #9
antirez wrote: post #8

I believe we will see a new huge wave of useful open source software. However don't expect the development model to stay the same. I was finally able to resurrect a few projects of mine, and many more will come. One incredible thing was the ability to easily merge what was worth merging from forks, for instance. The new OSS will be driven not much by the amount of code you can produce, but from the idea of software y…

We need a new git. (could be built on the current git) > One incredible thing was the ability to easily merge what was worth merging from forks, for instance I agree, this is amazing, and really reduces the wasted effort. But it only works if you know what exists and where.

[deleted]

Re: Vibe coding kills open source

#127

Post by korenmiklos »

earino wrote: post #15
lukan wrote: post #5

"Vibe coding raises productivity by lowering the cost of using and building on existing code, but it also weakens the user engagement through which many maintainers earn returns." I think the title is clickbait. The conclusion is: "Vibe coding represents a fundamental shift in how software is produced and consumed. The productivity gains are real and large. But so is the threat to the open source ecosystem that under…

Two of the authors are engaging on bluesky regarding the "clickbaityness" of the paper: https://bsky.app/profile/gaborbekes.bsky.social/post/3md4rga... (Note, I receive a thanks in the paper.)

author here. indeed, a more preceise title could be

> given everything we know about OSS incentives from prior studies and how easy it is to load an OSS library with your AI agent, the demand-reducing effect of vibe coding is larger than the productivity-increasing effect

but that would be a mouthful

Re: Vibe coding kills open source

#128

Post by II2II »

WarmWash wrote: post #29

Small bespoke personalized on the spot apps are the future with LLMs. The future will absolutely not be "How things are today + LLMs" The paradigm now for software is "build a tool shed/garage/barn/warehouse full of as much capability for as many uses possible" but when LLMs can build you a custom(!) hammer or saw in a few minutes, why go to the shed?

> when LLMs can build you an custom(!) hammer or saw in a few minutes, why go to the shed?

Because software developers typically understand how to implement a solution to problem better than the client. If they don't have enough details to implement a solution, they will ask the client for details. If the developer decides to use an LLM to implement a solution, they have the ability to assess the end product.

The problem is software developers cost money. A developer using an LLM may reduce the cost of development, but it is doubtful that the reduction in cost will be sufficient to justify personalized applications in many cases. Most of the cases where it would justify the cost would likely be in domains where custom software is in common use anyhow.

Sure, you will see a few people using LLMs to develop personalized software for themselves. Yet these will be people who understand how to specify the problem they are trying to solve clearly, will have the patience to handle the quirks and bugs in the software they create, and may even enjoy the process. You may even have a few small and medium sized businesses hiring developers who use LLMs to create custom software. But I don't think you're going to see the wholesale adoption of personalized software.

And that only considers the ability of people to specify the problem they are trying to solve. There are other considerations, such as interoperability. We live in a networked world after all, and interoperability was important even before everything was networked.

Re: Vibe coding kills open source

#129

Post by fragmede »

kibwen wrote: post #92
croes wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>LLMs democratise access to coding Vibe coders don't code, they let code. So LLMs democratise access to coders.

Closed-source models aren't "democratizing" access to anything. If you wanted to hire a contractor to write some code for you, that's always been possible.

Part of democracy is that it's available to all citizens, and not just for the rich. Yes, it's always been possible to find someone, but not for $200/month that will work tirelessly wherever you want them to. 9:00 am Monday? great. 7pm Tuesday? Also great. 4 am on Sunday? Just as great, for an LLM.

Re: Vibe coding kills open source

#130

Post by antirez »

m000 wrote: post #32
antirez wrote: post #8

I believe we will see a new huge wave of useful open source software. However don't expect the development model to stay the same. I was finally able to resurrect a few projects of mine, and many more will come. One incredible thing was the ability to easily merge what was worth merging from forks, for instance. The new OSS will be driven not much by the amount of code you can produce, but from the idea of software y…

The real question is how much of the new wave of vibe-coded software will be able to graduate from pet project to community-maintained project. It feels that vibe coding may exacerbate fragmentation (10 different vibe-coded packages for the same thing) and abandonment (made it in a weekend and left it to rot) for open source software.

I believe the process of accumulation of knowledge / fixes / interesting ideas will be still valid, so there will be a tons of small projects doing things that you can replicate and throw away, but the foundational libraries / tools will be still collaborative. But I don't agree with the idea of fragmentation, AI is very good at merging stuff from different branches, even when they diverged significantly.
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