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Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

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Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#121

Post by jbm »

dgacmu wrote: post #110
lagniappe wrote: post #97

I want the future to focus more on the brakes and tire dust, and the increase in cancers and other problems by people who live near busy roads or highways experience. Nobody studies this, and combustion or battery, everyone is affected by it. Even playgrounds are filled with shredded tires, which borders on biohazard.

It gets studied. EVs are often heavier, which is worse for tire wear, but use regenerative braking, which is better for brake dust. Overall, EVs are likely a net win on the combination of these two things, and a big win on exhaust emissions, but it would be nice if we could shift to lighter and smaller vehicles and increase the mix of non-cars such as e-bikes and mass transit. Source: https://www.eiturbanmobility.eu/…

This will be met with consternation, not appreciation. The people who comment about brake dust in EV topics are the people who complain about birds when talking about windmills.

We know it is disingenuous because no one cares about this when discussing overweight trucks and SUVs. Good news about a reduction in pollution from EVs? Can't have that. It's like the "At what price" meme around headlines about China.

Going forward, I will downvote any comment about "brake pollution" and "tire pollution" that does not begin with - specifically - "This is a bigger issue for large, gas-powered trucks and SUVs", and invite you all to do so to. The association of these shitty comments with EV topics is as organic as lighter fluid.

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#122

Post by wilg »

01HNNWZ0MV43FF wrote: post #115
dgacmu wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It gets studied. EVs are often heavier, which is worse for tire wear, but use regenerative braking, which is better for brake dust. Overall, EVs are likely a net win on the combination of these two things, and a big win on exhaust emissions, but it would be nice if we could shift to lighter and smaller vehicles and increase the mix of non-cars such as e-bikes and mass transit. Source: https://www.eiturbanmobility.eu/…

Plug-in hybrids are a wonderful middle point on the Pareto frontier. Wikipedia lists the 3rd-gen Prius Prime at roughly 3,500 pounds curb weight, and the Tesla Model Y at 4,100-4,600 pounds, I assume depending on the battery it's equipped with. The Prius Prime has 40+ miles of all-electric range, and it can reach highway speeds with the gas engine off. So your day-to-day driving is all electric, then you still have a…

Hybrids don't solve the main problem which is global warming, which demands zero carbon, not 50MPG gas cars.

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#123

Post by yanhangyhy »

MengerSponge wrote: post #87
yanhangyhy wrote: post #78

i moved to beijing in 2015.. and i have to buy a air purifier, prepare masks for winter. pepople talks about air polutions so much, it feels like we are struggle, not living a life. i remember one day, it was so bad, i have to wear gas mask to go outisde, i know it's rare, and people are staring, but yes, its that hard. it's 2026 now, you barely see bad days in Beijing, most people wear mask only for the flu, not for…

Factories were one source, but in-home coal furnaces were a gigantic pollutant source in aggregate. I read articles about villagers banned from this who couldn't afford cleaner heat sources. Is that still the case?

Yes. This issue was exposed by netizens on social media and has been widely reported by numerous media. The local government has now lowered natural gas prices and increased subsidies. but i think the cost is still likely higher than burning coal. Hopefully they will continue to improve this situation.

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#124

Post by pvab3 »

Der_Einzige wrote: post #107
Aurornis wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A lot of Americans take their cat off on purpose for louder noises. Some people remove catalytic converters when they install a performance exhaust. Nobody is doing it for louder noises because the muffler portion is what dampens the sound. Also I wouldn’t say it’s “a lot of Americans”. We have emissions inspections in most major cities and your car won’t pass if you remove the catalytic converter. They can now det…

I know a LOT of people personally who swap their exhaust in and out just for emissions inspections. That's the meta.

a lot of people have custom exhausts, particularly catback systems that don't affect emissions. A lot of people are definitely not rolling coal.

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#125

Post by [deleted] »

Der_Einzige wrote: post #47
tonymet wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

tragically, because of efficiency standards, modern engines are known to burn oil . Otherwise you may be smelling cars who have had the cats stolen.

A lot of Americans take their cat off on purpose for louder noises. Additionally, a lot of conservatives love to "Roll coal", and literally will shit up the environment on purpose just because they feel schadenfreude from pissing of an environmentalist.

[deleted]

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#126

Post by stevenjgarner »

Espressosaurus wrote: post #105
catgary wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EVs should do much better on brake dust thanks to regenerative braking, no?

But heavier so worse on the tires. It isn’t intuitive that they’d be better off, and they might be worse on this particular dimension.

Yes current EVs are heavy. It's not at all clear that this will prevail as solid state batteries evolve to become standard. It is highly possible that EVs will soon be lighter than comparable ICE vehicles [1]

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46505975

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#127

Post by thelastgallon »

lagniappe wrote: post #97

I want the future to focus more on the brakes and tire dust, and the increase in cancers and other problems by people who live near busy roads or highways experience. Nobody studies this, and combustion or battery, everyone is affected by it. Even playgrounds are filled with shredded tires, which borders on biohazard.

The best solution is to build walking or biking environments.

This was discussed before: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43672779

(saving a click)

We need to start taxing vehicles based on the damage they are responsible for. The 4th Power Law is a principle in road engineering that states that the damage a vehicle causes to a road surface is proportional to the fourth power of its axle load. This means that even small increases in axle load can cause exponentially greater damage to the road.

A Prius causes about 50,000 times more damage than a bicycle.

A truck causes 16 billion times more damage than a bicycle.

A truck causes 31,000 times more damage than a Prius.

The solution is to tax trucks 31,000 times more than cars. Improve walking/biking/trains/public transportation. Private cars should be a luxury which is made a necessity with zoning laws.

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#129

Post by braincat31415 »

zahlman wrote: post #104
braincat31415 wrote: post #39

Has the study made an effort to exclude any other factors? For example, a reduction in commute during the covid years?

> For the analysis, the researchers divided California into 1,692 neighborhoods, using a geographic unit similar to zip codes. They obtained publicly available data from the state’s Department of Motor Vehicles on the number of ZEVs registered in each neighborhood. ZEVs include full-battery electric cars, plug-in hybrids and fuel-cell cars, but not heavier duty vehicles like delivery trucks and semi trucks. > Next, t…

I see. Thanks for the quote. I missed that part in the press release.

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#130

Post by DaSHacka »

tshaddox wrote: post #29
ares623 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just hope "dumb" EV's become a thing soon. I cannot and will not own a smart car any more I want to own a smart TV or smart fridge or smart toaster.

Are EVs more “smart” than comparably priced ICE vehicles?

Typically, yes. Although I chalk much of that up to traditional ICE companies being extremely slow to adopt new technology and implementating it poorly or only superficially.
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