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Things I've learned in my 10 years as an engineering manager

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Re: Things I've learned in my 10 years as an engineering manager

#121

Post by ratorx »

_tlo4 wrote: post #93
ratorx wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Team lead manages the overall direction of the team (and is possibly the expert on some portions), but for an individual subsystem a senior engineer might be the expert. For work coming from outside the team, it’s sort of upto your management chain and team lead to prioritise. But for internally driven work (tech debt reduction, reliability/efficiency improvements etc) often the senior engineer has a better idea of t…

I agree, but I think that input is limited to unopinionated information about the technical impact or user-facing impact of each task. I don't think it can be said that senior engineers persuade their leaders to take one position or the other, because you can't really argue against a political or financial decision using technical or altruistic arguments, especially when you have no access to the political or financi…

I guess this is also a matter of organisational policy and how much power individual teams/organisational units have.

I would imagine mature organisations without serious short/medium term existential risk due to product features may build some push back mechanisms to defend against the inherent cost of maintaining existing business (ie prioritising tech debt to avoid outages etc).

In general, it is a probably a mix of the two - even if there is a mandate from up high, things are typically arranged so that it can only occupy X% of a team’s capacity in normal operation etc, with at least some amount “protected” for things the team thinks are important. Of course, this is not the case everywhere and a specific demand might require “all hands on deck”, but to me that seems like a short-sighted decision without an extremely good reason.

Re: Things I've learned in my 10 years as an engineering manager

#122

Post by rglynn »

satisfice wrote: post #10

Why do people espouse goals like “not to be needed?” I never understood that. It sounds like LinkedIn virtue signaling. It’s a capitalist talking point along the lines of “I seek to be good and inexpensive capital for my corporate masters.” My goal is to help my team succeed in such a way as to keep my job or else get a better one. Being “not needed” hardly serves that goal. Look around you. We are in a world that is…

I think of it this way:

Is your goal for the software you write to need constant intervention, or would you say you'd aim for it to run smoothly with few bugs?

The team is akin to a piece of software architecture, only much more complex and comprised (partially) of humans.

You want someone to build that team and then have the team up and running, delivering value. When it breaks, or you want it to do new/different things, you need someone to step in to fix it or change it.

Re: Things I've learned in my 10 years as an engineering manager

#123

Post by fogzen »

psunavy03 wrote: post #97
OhMeadhbh wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was in the Marines, we had a rule of thumb that every Marine needed to know their own mission and the mission of units two or three echelons above them. So individual Marines needed to know their mission, their platoon's mission and their company's mission. Company commanders needed to know their mission, their battalion's mission and the division's mission. More specifics for echelons closer to you. This is c…

As a former Naval Flight Officer, it's somewhat ironic how the private sector is more "sir, yes sir" command and control than the military ever was, and they're the ones who stereotype servicemembers for being drones who can only follow orders. The other thing I've seen incredibly less of in software than in uniform is a bias for action at all levels. Combined with understanding the mission, a mentality that "in the…

Because every time I've done something of my own initiative, one of three things happens:

1/ I'm punished or reprimanded for doing something that my time wasn't explicitly scheduled for. This comes from managers.

2/ Nobody cares and I'm now further behind on the things I committed to.

3/ People care, are happy I took the initiative, but I'm not materially rewarded in any way. At worst, I'm given more work.

In all cases I am no better off. I just don't do it anymore. Employers don't want employee autonomy, so they don't get employee autonomy. Employers only want to give paychecks not profits, so they get employees who only want paychecks.

Re: Things I've learned in my 10 years as an engineering manager

#124

Post by super_mario »

tmarice wrote: post #34

This kind of EM-focused articles often mention "coaching" and "career growth" -- I always wonder what does this concretely mean. Are they all managing teams of juniors straight out of college? What can a career EM, or even an engineer-to-EM convert who has been out of the coding game for more than a few years, teach a non-junior engineer on their team? I understand we can talk and exchange our concrete life experienc…

Coaching does not imply superiority. I doubt any sports coach could substitute any player in a competitive game, yet they can coach them to become better version of themselves.

What engineers usually struggle with as they grow into more senior roles is the transition from being primarily a technologist to being a leader. This is such a huge shift for a lot of engineers and requires soft skills and communication style adjustments. The more senior you are the more your focus shifts from coding to listening, networking, influencing, selling the technical vision, building trust relationships, understanding what other engineers need and want, to mentoring, to raising the quality of the team around you through influence to motivating others as well. Being able to influence the product direction, being able to express in business terms why something has to be done or should be a higher priority etc. Also, understanding the organization and becoming organizationally savvy is important.

All of these skills take time and practice to achieve, and good managers can guide their people through the journey.

Re: Things I've learned in my 10 years as an engineering manager

#125

Post by evilduck »

gramie wrote: post #79
crjohns648 wrote: post #48

> A good manager is more like a transparent umbrella. They protect the team from unnecessary stress and pressure, but don’t hide reality from them. I'm absolutely going to steal this metaphor going forward. Being a "transparent umbrella" does require knowing the personalities of your reports, some people do get distracted when they think higher-up decisions or unhappiness are going to affect their team. Most people,…

I recall hearing that Google had a term similar to this: A "shit umbrella" was a manager who protected the development team from all the politics, blame, and mismanagement coming from above. A "shit funnel" was a manager who directed all the shit coming down, directly onto the team.

You forgot "shit spewer". One who creates the shit that someone else has to then deal with (usually organizational peers or the team beneath them).

Re: Things I've learned in my 10 years as an engineering manager

#126

Post by taude »

_tlo4 wrote: post #95
djb_hackernews wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work at a large software company, senior engineers here are essentially technical leads for a team or a subsystem. They are my equals when it comes to level, often getting paid a lot more than me for high performers. I'm here to help the team make decisions, but I delegate as much of the opinion having to my senior engineers. To have an opinion they need a bunch of inputs, sometimes getting those inputs isn't as na…

Just a misunderstanding, then - thanks for taking the time to clear it up, I appreciate it. Strange that your company calls its tech leads "senior engineers", when every other company is going through title inflation! Hiring for those roles must be a pain.

I've never worked at a company that had a "tech lead" role as part of official HR levels. Junior engineers (couple levels) -> Senior Engineers (couple levels) -> Principle/Staff (couple levels) -> some form of really rare role of Distinguished.

Senior Engineers should definitely do what I think earlier comment thought of as "tech lead". Should be able to run juniors, solve cross-cutting needs, etc....

Re: Things I've learned in my 10 years as an engineering manager

#127

Post by satisfice »

rglynn wrote: post #122
satisfice wrote: post #10

Why do people espouse goals like “not to be needed?” I never understood that. It sounds like LinkedIn virtue signaling. It’s a capitalist talking point along the lines of “I seek to be good and inexpensive capital for my corporate masters.” My goal is to help my team succeed in such a way as to keep my job or else get a better one. Being “not needed” hardly serves that goal. Look around you. We are in a world that is…

I think of it this way: Is your goal for the software you write to need constant intervention, or would you say you'd aim for it to run smoothly with few bugs? The team is akin to a piece of software architecture, only much more complex and comprised (partially) of humans. You want someone to build that team and then have the team up and running, delivering value. When it breaks, or you want it to do new/different th…

The fallacy there is that I am not merely "building a team," I am managing. Managing is a live, interactive skill that involves certain services. A perfect team still needs management to help create the environment in which that team can effectively operate.

I saw a wonderful interview with a former commander of an aircraft carrier. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9rGATwZRr0) Rear Admiral Mike "Nasty" Manazir speaks of his main job as being clearing away obstacles that no one underneath him could clear. That's a service that no "self-managing team" can do for itself. A good manager also serves as a focus for the strategy, and deals with conflicts that would otherwise become impasses.

Re: Things I've learned in my 10 years as an engineering manager

#128

Post by satisfice »

dasil003 wrote: post #68
satisfice wrote: post #10

Why do people espouse goals like “not to be needed?” I never understood that. It sounds like LinkedIn virtue signaling. It’s a capitalist talking point along the lines of “I seek to be good and inexpensive capital for my corporate masters.” My goal is to help my team succeed in such a way as to keep my job or else get a better one. Being “not needed” hardly serves that goal. Look around you. We are in a world that is…

You’re taking it too literally, it’s not saying don’t be useful, it’s saying don’t make yourself a bottleneck. It’s a very common failure mode for new engineers turned manager, leading to a frustrated team that feels micro-managed and the perception from leadership that you don’t have your shit together and can’t adequately handle the scope you’ve been given.

Your interpretation does not fit the text. You are talking about someone who is micromanaging. But he's not saying "don't micromanage" in that section.

Re: Things I've learned in my 10 years as an engineering manager

#129

Post by satisfice »

mtippett wrote: post #106
satisfice wrote: post #10

Why do people espouse goals like “not to be needed?” I never understood that. It sounds like LinkedIn virtue signaling. It’s a capitalist talking point along the lines of “I seek to be good and inexpensive capital for my corporate masters.” My goal is to help my team succeed in such a way as to keep my job or else get a better one. Being “not needed” hardly serves that goal. Look around you. We are in a world that is…

A really good book on this is "Turn the ship around". Your role is to improve your staff to be better in their jobs. Ignoring the Manager/Engineer caste system, there is a lot general leadership in both roles. You want your staff to be able to integrate and find information that allows them to make decisions, you don't lose accountability or responsibilty. There is a big difference between - "I've looked at the detai…

I appreciate that book and that context, but that's not making yourself unnecessary. In this interview (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9rGATwZRr0) Rear Admiral Mike "Nasty" Manazir talks a lot about empowerment, but also about how the commander of an aircraft carrier never gets a lot of sleep.

Re: Things I've learned in my 10 years as an engineering manager

#130

Post by satisfice »

skirge wrote: post #14
satisfice wrote: post #10

Why do people espouse goals like “not to be needed?” I never understood that. It sounds like LinkedIn virtue signaling. It’s a capitalist talking point along the lines of “I seek to be good and inexpensive capital for my corporate masters.” My goal is to help my team succeed in such a way as to keep my job or else get a better one. Being “not needed” hardly serves that goal. Look around you. We are in a world that is…

cause it means: I lead them so good that I do nothing and still get my salary.

I think you don't understand what a manager does. As a manager, I'm not standing there telling people what to do all day. Instead I am creating the conditions for the team to succeed. This is an active and every day service.
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