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Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

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Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#121

Post by brianpan »

KnuthIsGod wrote: post #40

Global sales of Porsche, Audi, Mercedes and BMW brand ( BMW Group sales increased marginally, but includes) have all declined. The end is in sight for German cars as Chinese made electric cars take over. I have had several German cars. Never again ! Sticking to Japanese and probably Chinese cars in the future. German cars were decent once. Now they are notorious for poor long term reliability.

If we're comparing notes, I traded in my Model 3 for a BMW i4 and I couldn't be happier. It's a nicer car and more fun to drive!

JD Power and Consumer Reports both rate BMW above average.

BTW, my impression of BMW maintenance from prior decades is expensive and not great reliability. I care about it less now with EVs because there is so much less regular maintenance. No oil changes, no brake pad changes, etc.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#122

Post by linksnapzz »

twodave wrote: post #65

I’ll be honest, kind of tired of every automotive-related thread turning into blowing smoke up China’s ass. It’s become almost as predictable as what goes on in Windows-related threads.

Well, it's nice to know that people are enthusiastic about manufacturing happening someplace; I just wish more of it would happen in the US.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#123

Post by bradlys »

loeg wrote: post #66
ggm wrote: post #12

I think a lot of people are missing a point here. Cars are not (just) use-values. They are expression of desire. They are, for some brands, classic Veblen Goods. Porche possibly could sell more by putting the price up They put their marque behind EV and Hybrid. It worked. Their brand sold well. This is in contradistinction to vendors who won't think about this market niche in positives, but are being dragged into it.

They have starkly raised their prices. The base 911 is nearly 40% more expensive than it was in 2020.

Yeah, such a weird comment. A 911 Turbo S is over $300k now. This car used to be low 200s for a well optioned one.

They're taking some kind of Nvidia strategy where they just charge more money for the new generation rather than making the new generation just objectively better than the previous for the same cost. The new GTS basically is a replacement for the old 911 Turbo - and at the same cost...

I was considering putting in an order for the new generation until the prices were announced. $300k is purely in exotic territory and if I am going down the exotic path, I'll gladly get something far more ridiculous. (Which is now the plan - just waiting for a carb legal one to appear on the market)

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#124

Post by dmix »

CGMthrowaway wrote: post #111
nxm wrote: post #5

The key part is electrified and not pure electric.

I never understood the big push for full EVs over hybrid. Roughly speaking, a hybrid gets double the MPG of an ICE car, and a BEV gets double the MPGe of a hybrid. But BEVs require you to add a plug to your garage to get a rapid refuel, when your whole neighborhood gets them it strains the grid, you are range limited, etc... My hunch is there are some laws or regs somewhere that kept hybrids from really taking off (o…

The main issue will always be price. Whether that's purchase price, resale, or maintenance. Even the budget brand cars from South Korea and Ford can figure out the basics of interior/exterior design where customers are happy. That mostly just leaves the price and it's only gone up.

Car prices have increased well above the rate of inflation over the last decade and even used cars are more expensive than ever. Average new car price is $50k, mostly because EVs are so expensive https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a69047202/average-new-car-...

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#125

Post by Liftyee »

jacquesm wrote: post #104
anonzzzies wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not think it is paranoia. But we can have this from anywhere. American devices, EU devices; if I cannot analyse the firmware, ICs etc, what is going to guarantee these are not remotely exploitable. Even if Porsche never built such a thing on purpose, the car is connected so someone can break in, hack it and do stuff including possible overhead the battery so it ignites. It does not have to be on purpose quality…

People don't realize that every device with a LiPo is only one (possibly malicious) update away from becoming a fuse.

Meh, often the LiPo protection logic is hardware based to prevent just this sort of mistake/sabotage. Some protection chips are software-configurable or reprogrammable, but the parameters are again limited (by design). Perhaps you could cause long-term damage by programming it to manage the battery poorly, like repeatedly charging/discharging it deeply.

I think "every device" is just fearmongering. No software Apple/Huawei push could immediately make a phone or laptop combust. Electric cars, 3D printers, etc... I'm not so sure.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#126

Post by sitharus »

CGMthrowaway wrote: post #111
nxm wrote: post #5

The key part is electrified and not pure electric.

I never understood the big push for full EVs over hybrid. Roughly speaking, a hybrid gets double the MPG of an ICE car, and a BEV gets double the MPGe of a hybrid. But BEVs require you to add a plug to your garage to get a rapid refuel, when your whole neighborhood gets them it strains the grid, you are range limited, etc... My hunch is there are some laws or regs somewhere that kept hybrids from really taking off (o…

Don't most people already have a plug in their garage? All mine certainly have. There's no need to get full EVSE for most people, a 2.4kW outlet as found almost everywhere outside North America will easily handle daily driving needs for anyone who's not in a travelling job.

Also if everyone in your neighbourhood turning on a space heater strains the grid you have bigger problems.

Utilities have plenty of ways to solve that. We already have electric water heaters on demand controlled circuits and electricity billing that incentivises off-peak use.

And as for range? 400km is plenty for all but one trip a year, if that's an issue for your use perhaps EVs are not for you.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#127

Post by maxdo »

dmix wrote: post #115
maxdo wrote: post #106

German cars have lost their technological edge. They can't even build their own infotainment systems anymore. They're paying billions to China to do it for them. I can't overstate how catastrophically stupid this is. Paying what they consider smaller competitors real cash to build core software, instead of developing that capability in-house or acquiring a few startups with decent engineering talent. This isn't just…

> instead of developing that capability in-house or acquiring a few startups with decent engineering talent. It's usually the former and their infotainment stuff is usually nothing to get excited about. When they buy startups they get bogged down and burn off the talent quickly. Maybe the solution is not having the same small set of car companies trying to pull off the survival balancing act as we did a century ago,…

Their biggest brand, BYD, is also relatively the "oldest."

It's the governemt priorities, local gov in China is building EV companies, AI companies. EU governemnt, US local gov is building shelters, or people who kick out people from a shelter on a voters mood swing.

A friend from the EU visited recently. He said, "At least the Netherlands is doing much better than 10 years ago...we have lights, roads." That one sentence captures the entire mindset gap.

The bitter irony: Philips literally built ASML and TSMC, then sold both. Now those companies dominate global semiconductor supply chains while Philips sells... healthcare equipment at a loss.

And ASML is about to lose it's dominance too.

But yeah...lights on the streets. Built with Chinese LEDs. Powered by Chinese solar panels. Bought using budget deficits. In debt.

And the deficit keeps growing. Some EU countries faster, some slower. But the trend is unmistakable.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#128

Post by olyjohn »

Braxton1980 wrote: post #103
linksnapzz wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who have purchased Hyundai/Kia products w/ the GDI Theta II engine would, perhaps, take issue with "used to be".

One engine issue due to a manufacturing flaw shouldn't be enough to counter their massive change in produt lines over the years

Maybe just anecdotal evidence, but i'm noticing a lot of Kias with no brake lights. I'm suspecting bad body control modules are going to become more of a thing as these cars age.

I noticed when GMT800 trucks were blowing DRLs constantly and lo and behold there's a TSB for that. So I don't think I'm imagining things.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#129

Post by tmnvix »

jacquesm wrote: post #81
IncreasePosts wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it took Japan about 25 years of very directed industrial strategy to take the "made in Japan" label from indicating junk to the average American, to indicating a premium/reliable product. China might get there in even less than 25 years but you'll probably still find people holding onto old "chinesium" beliefs long after they should

Japan never was a threat during that time to countries around it. China is very much a threat to other countries around it and I would feel pretty bad about materially financing yet another war.

I'm beginning to feel this way about the US. Much more comfortable with Chinese foreign policy at this point. At this point, going on the past 50 years or so, it would take something quite extraordinary on China's part to convince me they are going to abuse their power as much as the US has so far. Hopefully I'm not simply being naive.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#130

Post by dotancohen »

brianpan wrote: post #121
KnuthIsGod wrote: post #40

Global sales of Porsche, Audi, Mercedes and BMW brand ( BMW Group sales increased marginally, but includes) have all declined. The end is in sight for German cars as Chinese made electric cars take over. I have had several German cars. Never again ! Sticking to Japanese and probably Chinese cars in the future. German cars were decent once. Now they are notorious for poor long term reliability.

If we're comparing notes, I traded in my Model 3 for a BMW i4 and I couldn't be happier. It's a nicer car and more fun to drive! JD Power and Consumer Reports both rate BMW above average. BTW, my impression of BMW maintenance from prior decades is expensive and not great reliability. I care about it less now with EVs because there is so much less regular maintenance. No oil changes, no brake pad changes, etc.

Counterpoint. After driving my Model 3 in 2022, a colleague bought his first non-BMW: a Tesla Model 3. His only complaints were the seat and the handling. Everything else he liked better about the Tesla.

This from someone who owned three or four BMWs.

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