Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

EU and Mercosur countries sign landmark free trade deal

dw.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 184 posts

Re: EU and Mercosur countries sign landmark free trade deal

#121

Post by ivan_gammel »

Saline9515 wrote: post #118
ivan_gammel wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From consumer perspective this agreement changes nothing, explicitly stating that. It does not allow lower quality of products imported from Mercosur. All EU standards for food safety remain applicable and EU may adopt stronger standards in the future. Some stuff forbidden in EU is used in e.g. Brazil, but as long as residues are at safe level, it’s considered ok. European farmers are against this part, because their…

No one controls for the food quality imported in the EU. If you read consumer protection specialized papers, they very often find problematic products. Massive amounts of fake honey from China is being sold in the internal market with absolutely no repercussions. The only way to ensure food safety is to control the production sites, which Mercosur doesn't allow.

>If you read consumer protection specialized papers, they very often find problematic products.

If nobody controls it, where all those papers come from?

Re: EU and Mercosur countries sign landmark free trade deal

#122

Post by gaigalas »

dataviz1000 wrote: post #91
mikaeluman wrote: post #51

The main issue as I see it is that we need food security in the EU. Especially high quality nutrious dense food like beef. And EU farmers are subject to a ridiculous number of regulations and costs. The thing is, these may very well be good for environmental reasons, but it doesn't work if we just start importing from countries that do the opposite.

I'm currently in Brazil. Buenos Aries has NYC, Miami food prices. One of the things that strikes me the most is price of food here and Argentina, Uruguay, and Paraguay. By shipping the food to Europe and United States, it makes it extremely expensive here. After decades of authoritarian control, the food production here has been concentrated into a few extraordinary families. The EU farmers are not the only people ge…

> it makes it extremely expensive here

That is relative. It makes it expensive compared to our people's purchasing power. Most people here don't earn much.

In more absolute terms (costs, etc), food in Brazil is incredibly cheap. Also abundant and varied (we have all climates within our borders, can plant/grow anything) to levels that people in the US and EU cannot understand.

I can prepare $50 USD meals for $30 BRL (which is about $6 USD). Not only premium beef, but premium fish, fruit, chocolate, wine, cheese (that's why wine and cheese are protected in the deal).

People told me this, and I only really believed when I visited the US and saw their food offerings in the market. I was shocked, and thankful for living here.

Re: EU and Mercosur countries sign landmark free trade deal

#123

Post by surgical_fire »

lm28469 wrote: post #63
bboozzoo wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How come folks seem to focus on beef, while IMO the real stakes are in obtaining access to important minerals. Lithium, nickel, copper, graphite, niobium, etc. are often listed. There's a nice breakdown on EC pages: https://policy.trade.ec.europa.eu/eu-trade-relationships-cou...

Why do we focus on the shit part of the deal? Do I need to explain that really?

Because that part of the deal is not shitty.

You are just fearmongering based on lies. "Hormone raised cattle", and shit like that.

South America likely has the best beef in the world (I can speak from experience having lived on both sides of the pond). Good that I might have access to real meat here for once.

Re: EU and Mercosur countries sign landmark free trade deal

#124

Post by iagooar »

pseudony wrote: post #94
iagooar wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair trade yes. Unfair trade no. And Mercosur is COMPLETELY unfair to European farmers. It imposes higher standards - and thus costs - on European farmers, while allowing South American farmers to produce with lower quality and adding forbidden substances to grow crops faster - and cheaper.

From Reuters: “ The extra imports represent 1.6% of EU beef consumption and 1.4% for poultry”. Maybe take a deep breath and relax a bit before storming the ramparts. This is a slight adjustment not something undercutting all EU farming.

Today.

Re: EU and Mercosur countries sign landmark free trade deal

#125

Post by Saline9515 »

ivan_gammel wrote: post #120
Saline9515 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who controls it though? A lot of non-compliant products are imported from China in plain sight, as there are 0 control and LATAM countries have no incentives in enforcing it.

European consumer protection authorities control the quality and food is regularly tested, of course. European producers aren’t saints too.

Food safety is ensured by controlling at the production level, with physical inspections. Given the sheer amount of food traded and imported the lab measures are very unreliable and costly.

Private consumer protection groups very often find problematic products. Honey is a good example, massive fake honey from China has been being dumped in the EU for the last 20 years, authorities don't care at all and allow it to continue.

Re: EU and Mercosur countries sign landmark free trade deal

#126

Post by surgical_fire »

iagooar wrote: post #34
raverbashing wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Farmers like to complain and always get new privileges with every protest I for once are happy they are getting a reality check for once

I hope you won't get a reality check if one day there is a famine in Europe caused by outsourcing the entire farming to other continents. The very first thing any enemy force would do is a naval blockade, the rest is patience and lots of deaths.

Buddy, we are talking about a quota that is less than 2% of the beef produced in EU.

If having 1% of beef imported causes a famine, then the farming in Europe is actually pretty awful.

Re: EU and Mercosur countries sign landmark free trade deal

#127

Post by kledru »

dataviz1000 wrote: post #91
mikaeluman wrote: post #51

The main issue as I see it is that we need food security in the EU. Especially high quality nutrious dense food like beef. And EU farmers are subject to a ridiculous number of regulations and costs. The thing is, these may very well be good for environmental reasons, but it doesn't work if we just start importing from countries that do the opposite.

I'm currently in Brazil. Buenos Aries has NYC, Miami food prices. One of the things that strikes me the most is price of food here and Argentina, Uruguay, and Paraguay. By shipping the food to Europe and United States, it makes it extremely expensive here. After decades of authoritarian control, the food production here has been concentrated into a few extraordinary families. The EU farmers are not the only people ge…

your comment gives impression as if Buenos Aries were in Brazil, so not sure what to make of it...

Re: EU and Mercosur countries sign landmark free trade deal

#128

Post by enaaem »

mikaeluman wrote: post #51

The main issue as I see it is that we need food security in the EU. Especially high quality nutrious dense food like beef. And EU farmers are subject to a ridiculous number of regulations and costs. The thing is, these may very well be good for environmental reasons, but it doesn't work if we just start importing from countries that do the opposite.

Mercusor nations only get lower tariffs up to a certain amount. For meat that's roughly 1.5% of EU production. That is no threat to Europe's strategic capacity.

https://policy.trade.ec.europa.eu/eu-trade-relationships-cou...

Re: EU and Mercosur countries sign landmark free trade deal

#129

Post by iagooar »

surgical_fire wrote: post #113
iagooar wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair trade yes. Unfair trade no. And Mercosur is COMPLETELY unfair to European farmers. It imposes higher standards - and thus costs - on European farmers, while allowing South American farmers to produce with lower quality and adding forbidden substances to grow crops faster - and cheaper.

> South American farmers to produce with lower quality and adding forbidden substances to grow crops faster - and cheaper. This is a lot of fearmongering in a small sentences. Nothing in the agreement says that that the EU has ro accept food produced with substandard practices. Also, food produce in South America is not exactly low standards.

On average, South American farmers use 2-3 times more pesticides than farmers in Europe. 2-3 times more would be illegal in Europe, but is allowed as part of Mercosur trade.

Pesticides banned in Europe, but allowed in South America: Atrazine, Acephate, Mancozeb, Paraquat, and many more.

Diseases they can produce include: Parkinson's, brain damage in children and lower IQ, infertility, genetic mutations.

Re: EU and Mercosur countries sign landmark free trade deal

#130

Post by oytis »

pousada wrote: post #72
iagooar wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair trade yes. Unfair trade no. And Mercosur is COMPLETELY unfair to European farmers. It imposes higher standards - and thus costs - on European farmers, while allowing South American farmers to produce with lower quality and adding forbidden substances to grow crops faster - and cheaper.

This is a common meme but wrong. The imported goods are subject to the same restrictions as those produced within EU. What hurts EU farmers the most is the big supermarket cartel that controls prices and pushes farmers to produce more and more cheaply (and consumers that react extremely sensitive to every price increase, but that’s a more inconvenient truth)

That's like an anti-cartel, a cartel that keeps the consumer prices low.

With 12 euro/kg currently I wouldn't call beef in Germany extremely cheap on the world scale. Poultry has pretty much crossed the 10 euro mark too.

Post reply on HN