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I set all 376 Vim options and I'm still a fool

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Re: I set all 376 Vim options and I'm still a fool

#121

Post by alex1138 »

AlexandrB wrote: post #28
jrm4 wrote: post #18

This feels like the "wrong" direction today with the advent of AI? Just seems like in the realm of "bending yourself to the tool vs bending the tool to yourself," it's the LATTER that's about to get a whole lot easier, if it isn't already. So, sure, there are probably things you can learn, but e.g. I'm much more about "I think it should be THIS way so how do I make it do that."

Learning Vim has been one of the highest-longevity skill I picked up in University. With every new technology - autocomplete, IDEs, various GUI design interfaces - there's always a chorus of folks who say: "Well now you don't need to Vim, this new tool makes that obsolete." And every time I end up having to manipulate a mountain of text regardless - whether that's in logs, source code, configuration, or documentation…

Any thoughts on Neovim? Do you like it?

Re: I set all 376 Vim options and I'm still a fool

#122

Post by wyclif »

misnome wrote: post #70
0xFEE1DEAD wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you tried WezTerm yet? It also uses lua for writing its configs which makes it highly customizable. I've switched to it from iTerm2 a couple of years ago and gradually added more and more to my config and it's super powerful.

I have various issues with it (e.g. wrapping on resize is just broken) and miss iTerm a little, but the built-in tabs aren’t too bad (unlike Kitty’s hardline stance) and it’s available cross-platform, so I can have the same config on many machines.

Ghostty is also a great option on macOS (on Linux I use Alacritty).

Re: I set all 376 Vim options and I'm still a fool

#123

Post by eviks »

eddd-ddde wrote: post #113
eviks wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - already exactly know where you want to go Same as with moving down by 1x10? How are you even choosing cursor direction if you don't know where to go to? > - figure out the relative distance either by looking to the side Ok, how is that an issue? You also have to figure out the distance by looking down when moving down with the arrows, so eyes still move? > move your hands to the numbers row to input numbers and b…

No one is doing 1x10 key presses. That's now how humans process information. You repeatedly press a key one time until what you see on screen is what you want. The further away you are the faster you do it.

> press a key one time

That's "1"

> You repeatedly press

That's x10

Re: I set all 376 Vim options and I'm still a fool

#124

Post by eviks »

chmod775 wrote: post #114
eviks wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - already exactly know where you want to go Same as with moving down by 1x10? How are you even choosing cursor direction if you don't know where to go to? > - figure out the relative distance either by looking to the side Ok, how is that an issue? You also have to figure out the distance by looking down when moving down with the arrows, so eyes still move? > move your hands to the numbers row to input numbers and b…

Oh. Now I get why we're talking past each other. There's a thing most computers are configured to do out of the box, but yours might be different for some reason. I'm going to assume you're using Windows. In that case go to Settings > Accessibility > Keyboard and configure "Character Repeat". What this will do is repeat a key you're holding as if you're pressing it multiple times! Configure it until it feels natural.…

> It's slower to "stop precisely"on key hold/release

For longer distances, unless your repeat speed is very slow, you're often either holding a key repeat and stop before a few lines and then tap or overshooting and tap to go back. So ok, it's not 1x10, but 7+1x3 or 12-1x2

(but yes, the initial leg of the journey is more mouse-like "natural", but still not that because you can't vary speed on most keyboards unlike with they mouse/hand)

For smaller distances you could just tap a few times.

Re: I set all 376 Vim options and I'm still a fool

#125

Post by allarm »

piekvorst wrote: post #120

I stopped listening to Vim users one day. I can’t prove it but I feel like they don’t really understand efficiency, just following the traditions.

What's your definition of efficiency? Is ci" inside "long text here" efficient enough for you, compared to the same thing in traditional editors?

Re: I set all 376 Vim options and I'm still a fool

#126

Post by allarm »

Uptrenda wrote: post #35

I never understood the appeal of these command-line editors with a million commands for different edge-cases. Why not just use VSCode? It has every possible extension you already need and a simple GUI. No need to type commands just to edit text when there's a file manager... It has remote SSH and features for vm machines. To me the kinds of people using these editors are the kinds of people that love making everythin…

> To me the kinds of people using these editors are the kinds of people that love making everything more complex to seem smart.

"I don't understand something and instead of asking nicely I decide to throw a tantrum and offend people". Why do you think it's appropriate to say things like this? Did I or any other vim/emacs/whatever user forced you to convert to their editor of choice?

Re: I set all 376 Vim options and I'm still a fool

#128

Post by TonyStr »

troad wrote: post #115
kelnos wrote: post #38

I've been using vim for over 20 years as my primary editor. I'm faster and more comfortable in it than I am in any other editor, but I still feel like a vim noob I still have to look up how to do things I rarely do (like insert the contents of another file at the cursor position). And I don't really use many (if any) of vim's intermediate features, let alone advanced ones. I've tried various ways to get more fluent,…

I think vim's greatest problem is discoverability. It's a big enough problem that after six or so months working full time in neovim I went back to a GUI editor. I just about barely remember the most common commands, but I do not remember (at all) anything I only need occasionally. I also know myself well enough to know I will never remember this sort of thing well. I have a terrible memory for procedural / administr…

I 100% agree, but I also think you can get very far with just taking a weekend to read the user manual (:h user-manual). It won't solve the remembering problem, but it will make looking up help when you need it much easier. For example, you would know that most window operations start with , so when you need to tile windows you could start with looking up `:h ctrl_w`.

There is also a very popular plugin for neovim that shows a popup with possible keybinds and descriptions whenever you begin any keybind: https://github.com/folke/which-key.nvim

Re: I set all 376 Vim options and I'm still a fool

#129

Post by TonyStr »

tuan wrote: post #22
swyx wrote: post #11

> single keystroke could move the cursor halfway across the file to exactly the right spot. sorry what is this? exaggeration?

I can see how that could work depends on the setup and the context. For example: People might use `. to jump to the last edit, or to a mark they set manually. Or simply `ciq` to edit inside the next quote without any manual cursor movements. I see people use plugin like harpoon to jump to their favorite location quickly. If you don't know about such setup, seeing people type 1 to jump not just within a file, but acro…

Dont forget `*` and `#`. Idk if other editors have this now, but before learning vim, I used to ctrl+shift+arrow_keys to select a word, ctrl+c, ctrl+f, ctrl+v, Enter in order to move around in code. Discovering `*` and `#` in vim was mindblowing

Re: I set all 376 Vim options and I'm still a fool

#130

Post by theknarf »

sudahtigabulan wrote: post #80
eviks wrote: post #75

That's because you should've fixed the foundation instead. For example, > I frequently opened this by running q: instead of :q, and didn’t know what I had done. Now I know: But you still haven't fixed the typo-prone keybinds! And you still haven't set up a way to get this information so that next time something unexpected happens you can open your log of commands and see exactly what you've done and decide on the spo…

> But you still haven't fixed the typo-prone keybinds! Which key bindings are you referring to? It's not a trap, I promise! Just fishing for ideas.

Personally I mapped q to quit, and w to save, as well as x to save and quit.
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