Germany's Merz admits nuclear exit was strategic mistake • Hacker News Board

Re: Germany's Merz admits nuclear exit was strategic mistake

#121

Post by eru » Sat, Jan 17, 2026, 5:08 AM UTC

Eji1700 wrote: post #107

amarant wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To get political points from the anti nuclear crowd, which is huge in Europe. I think proximity to Chernobyl is probably the reason why that movement has grown so badly out of proportion

It’s a shockingly strong movement even still in the US. A lot of education growing up was about how nuclear sludge would ruin everything and basically every “green” movement would still fight nuclear tooth and nail through all sorts of scare tactics. It’s only in the post climate change world that some are coming around to the reality that France exists and isn’t a smoking radioactive crater.

The German Green party, which has taken part in national governments and is the biggest party in several states, has basically founded to oppose nuclear power.

Re: Germany's Merz admits nuclear exit was strategic mistake

#122

Post by eru » Sat, Jan 17, 2026, 5:09 AM UTC

energy123 wrote: post #114

eru wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know how voting works?

I know the point of representative democracy.

I am saying that your suggested course of action might be morally superior, but it's hard to get (re-) elected with it.

So there's a selection bias amongst the politicians you see in power.

Re: Germany's Merz admits nuclear exit was strategic mistake

#123

Post by w10-1 » Sat, Jan 17, 2026, 5:09 AM UTC

energy123 wrote: post #104

seba_dos1 wrote: post #98

Who would have thought?

Politicians who appease these irrational psychogenic illnesses that sweep a population instead of saying "you're all idiots" are awful people. An abrogation of their leadership.

Ask yourself: for politicians who know they are on their way out, what prevents them from selling out what power they have? I doubt any have a sufficiently inflated sense of self, and most likely know how to do so nowadays without getting caught.

Sure, we want to elect good people. But relying on their goodness invites moral hazards like this. Everything that makes them an effective politician also makes them an effective criminal, so the question is hardly academic.

Re: Germany's Merz admits nuclear exit was strategic mistake

#124

Post by pankajdoharey » Sat, Jan 17, 2026, 5:11 AM UTC

hippo22 wrote: post #105

The story of their shutdown is really quite crazy. The shutdown was initiated by chancellor Gerhard Schröder. After killing Germany’s nuclear sector, he signed off on Nord Stream 1 as he was on his way out of office. Just after leaving office, Gazprom nominated him for the post of the head of the shareholders' committee of Nord Stream AG. Russia later nominated him to be on their largest oil producers board. This guy…

There should be a law that lawmakers can only be scientific people when it comes to science, i.e scientist's and engineers not humanities or arts majors. These people take decisions which are absolutely absurd. The entire western world has stockpiles of plutonium which is not going to be used for anything other than mutual self destruction. Because of these anti nuclear activists types the western hemisphere has trillions of dollars energy locked in the plutonium bombs, that could have been used in Fast breeder reactors and would have benefitted humanity.

Re: Germany's Merz admits nuclear exit was strategic mistake

#125

Post by energy123 » Sat, Jan 17, 2026, 5:11 AM UTC

eru wrote: post #122

energy123 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know the point of representative democracy.

I am saying that your suggested course of action might be morally superior, but it's hard to get (re-) elected with it. So there's a selection bias amongst the politicians you see in power.

Agreed that it's in their self-interest to participate in the mass hysteria, but I believe my point still stands that it's an abrogation of leadership.

Re: Germany's Merz admits nuclear exit was strategic mistake

#126

Post by defrost » Sat, Jan 17, 2026, 5:11 AM UTC

eru wrote: post #111

foepys wrote: post #95

This is typical CDU conservative talk from Merz. He is on a war path with anything Angela Merkel did because she saw him as politically inexperienced and shunned him. So he had to work for Blackrock. The CSU (the Bavarian equivalent and permanent coalition partner of the CDU) is also demanding to reactivate nuclear power plants but at the same time is not willing to store any spent nuclear fuel. The CSU is also notor…

Well, you could bury power lines. It's just pretty expensive.

Horizontal directional drilling costs $10 to $30 (USD) per linear foot with upfront fixed costs of $30K or so.

How does that compare to building above ground towers to support cable weight in all conditions?

I'd assume / guesstimate that route planning, community advisement, actual cable length, etc. costs are more or less the same in either case.

Re: Germany's Merz admits nuclear exit was strategic mistake

#127

Post by pepa65 » Sat, Jan 17, 2026, 5:14 AM UTC

V__ wrote: post #24

Merz will say anything if it somehow benefits him and doesn't concern himself with facts. > German Chancellor Friedrich Merz, admitted recently that Germany’s departure from nuclear energy was a serious strategic mistake, saying the policy has made the country’s energy transition “the most expensive in the entire world.” Even if that were the case, nuclear had no impact on the cost of the transition. > eliminating nu…

Using cheap Russian gas made everything cheap, what caused the big crash was getting cut off from it.

Re: Germany's Merz admits nuclear exit was strategic mistake

#128

Post by UltraSane » Sat, Jan 17, 2026, 5:14 AM UTC

chmod775 wrote: post #108

gregbot wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I highly doubt german reactors were designed to only last 35 years. Most gen II light water reactors in the US are expected to operate for 60-80 years. Edit: ah i reread and see what you meant but my point still stands that 45 years is abnormally short for the type of reactors they had

That's also not what I said. Germany was aiming for 45 years initially (likely planning for overhauls + recertification then, rather than shutdown). Instead they shut down at 35. However if left as is, all of those shut down in 2011 would have been shut down by ~2020 anyways.

No, they could all have gotten 20 year extensions and operate until 2040. Nuclear reactors should be run for as long as possible because they cost so much to build but are very cheap to operate.

Re: Germany's Merz admits nuclear exit was strategic mistake

#129

Post by ca1f » Sat, Jan 17, 2026, 5:17 AM UTC

UltraSane wrote: post #91

Highly relevant to this is the fact that German electricity is some of the most expensive in the world.

It really is not. This is misinformation spread mostly by the right winged party in germany and conservatives to some extent to.

Electricity in Germany can look expensive at first sight if you're quoting legacy household tariffs that many existing customers are still on, because they never switch provider / tariff. But that's not representative of what people pay if they sign a new contract today: the market for new contracts is typically several cents/kWh cheaper than those old existing tariffs stuck at their higher prices.

So "Germany has the highest electricity prices" is at best an incomplete claim, it depends heavily on which tariff cohort you refer to (legacy vs new contracts, default supply vs competitive offers), and people on the internet somehow always fall for this, often picking the worst bucket to make a political point.

Sources: https://www.zeit.de/wirtschaft/energiemonitor-strompreis-gas...

Unfortunately it's in german but my point stands: for new customers in germany the price per kwh is even lower than what france pays on average.

Re: Germany's Merz admits nuclear exit was strategic mistake

#130

Post by uecker » Sat, Jan 17, 2026, 5:19 AM UTC

AceJohnny2 wrote: post #92

UltraSane wrote: post #91

Highly relevant to this is the fact that German electricity is some of the most expensive in the world.

isn't it highly dependent on Russian gas too?

Germany stopped importing Russian gas after the start of the Ukraine war. One also has to understand that only a small fraction of gas use in Germany is for generation of electricity and much bigger part is for heating. Finally, the amount of electricity generated from gas is around 80 TWh and did not increase after shutting down nuclear.