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Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

electrek.co

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Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#121

Post by idontwantthis »

danans wrote: post #95
idontwantthis wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t get plug in hybrids. All other engine types save you more money compared to the next less efficient alternative the more you use them, but plugins get closer to the less efficient alternative (regular hybrid) the more you use them. Add in the approximately 25% price hike over the hybrid version when there is one and it makes no sense to me.

> but plugins get closer to the less efficient alternative (regular hybrid) the more you use them. As long as most of your drive cycle fits within the EV range of the plugin hybrid, they are cheaper to operate than a regular hybrid. The crossover point depends on the drive cycle and the cost of electricity vs gasoline. I had a plug-in hybrid SUV that got 2.2miles/kWh in EV mode, which covered 75% of the miles I drove…

But the problem is that means you drove a minuscule amount so if you’d bought a hybrid you would have still used very little gas and your car would have been much cheaper. Generously, the full range of a plugin hybrid is equivalent to about a gallon of gas.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#122

Post by __loam »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #101
grouchomarx wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I think the timing of the Cybertruck starting deliveries roughly aligning with when Elon got heavily involved in politics That and also it's just a bad product. >That said, even though it's not to my taste, I do admire that they dared to do something different and took a big gamble on it. A pickup truck should just be max utility, especially if you're a manufacturer making your first one edit: agree there's a market…

> That and also it's just a bad product. I want whatever the v3 equivalent of the Cybertruk would be. Assuming they improve on it.

That's basically the F150 or a rivian

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#123

Post by alistairSH »

MostlyStable wrote: post #43
mdavid626 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree that EV-s are held back by misconceptions. More their price and range.

I can do a ten hour road trip with a family of four plus a dog in a used (2022) EV that I got for ~30k last year. I think the idea that price and range are problems is exactly the misconception that op was taking about. They are somewhat more expensive, although when I originally did the calculus, fuel savings made up the difference in monthly payments for a new vehicle, but that's going to vary a lot. The is a very…

Now do the range/time/stops calculation with a travel trailer.

Yes, if we're talking about normal family travel, an EV works fine for many trips (though there are still charging "dead spots" in parts of the country - looking at you WV).

But, "truck stuff" like towing, they aren't there yet. Maybe in a few years when we get the next generation of battery and charger tech.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#124

Post by evereverever »

I love my EV, but for anything that needs the range they should have a super-efficient gas or diesel engine that can charge the batteries? It could be a much less complex engine.

That said, they big car makers only chased the government incentives, which was a great reason to have them.

Electric everything is the future. It is obvious (e.g. heat pumps, EVs).

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#125

Post by instagib »

Maybe they can sell them at the announced prices instead of the inflated ones. Used is selling around $40k with 20-40,000 miles.

New started at 40k, went to 60k for sale, pre-order fulfillment fell off a cliff so it sunk to 56k, and settled around 50k.

2022: 15,617 sold

2023: 24,165

2024: 33,510

2025: “Around 27,300 units sold in the U.S”

$4k-$6k per battery module replacement. Full pack $25k-$50k.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#126

Post by bryanlarsen »

shortstuffsushi wrote: post #69
everdrive wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heartbreaking but true. The most popular pickups today are not the most useful pickups. There are no more basic utilitarian pickups any longer, at least in the US. Pickups are a little bit interesting in this regard. For any given model (eg: Tacoma, Frontier, etc.) the more premium the truck, the worse it is at being a truck. Each feature you add reduces its payload, and in the case of the Frontier, you could drop fr…

> There are no more basic utilitarian pickups any longer, at least in the US. What makes you say this? The F-150 series has a pretty serviceable option in their XL trim. 8ft bed, 4x4, "dumb" interior (maybe not, looking at their site looks like the most recent is iPad screen, sigh) - but what else would you look for to call it utilitarian? You're right that each feature is further limiting, but I would argue premium…

A F-150 from the previous century is much utilitarian than today's F-150's. The bed height and rail height are much more reasonable heights -- you can reach into the bed from the side.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#127

Post by allarm »

barbazoo wrote: post #70
b40d-48b2-979e wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A *working* truck should be max utility. All trucks should be working trucks. There is no reason to drive something that large and heavy that isn't better served by smaller vehicles that don't damage our shared infrastructure while being safer to drive.

Tragedy of the commons.

This is a tragedy of an awful taste.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#128

Post by to11mtm »

jandrese wrote: post #41
4d4m wrote: post #12

Why was it so ugly? The front lightbars execution looked cheap and toy-like. Expecting awesome designs for future Ford electric trucks lets go!

Looks are subjective, but what I don't understand is why they put an enormous vision obscuring frunk on it. The vehicle could have been considerably easier to maneuver in tight spots and safer to pedestrians at the loss of just some dubious storage space with no loss in bed capacity. Or it could have been the same length or even a little shorter and have a full 4x8 bed in the back. If anything the vehicle was designe…

The Lightning was done the way it was because they were able to re-use a lot of existing F150 tooling/etc and keep the R&D cost lower in the process.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#129

Post by Fazebooking »

billti wrote: post #13

I think the timing of the Cybertruck starting deliveries roughly aligning with when Elon got heavily involved in politics hurt it quite a bit. It is such a distinctive vehicle with a strong association with Elon, that there was an immediate brand association. It may have had poor sales anyway, but it certainly didn't help that many folks on the left, who are typically the most 'pro EV', had a large 'anti-Elon' shift…

Elon Shithead promised a lot for apparently a good price and wasn't able to deliver.

It wasn't just the hate i think.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#130

Post by WorldMaker »

throwaway85825 wrote: post #51

Range extended EVs make far more sense. Smaller cheaper batteries but range benefit of a gas tank. 90% of trips are less than 30 miles.

They are the worst of both worlds: not enough battery range to satisfy on long trips plus the weight and maintenance headaches of a gas tank and engine, especially silly to lug that around if 90% of your trips are in battery range.

As a 2012 Volt owner I think EREV was a great idea in the 2010s given battery tech and networks at the time. In the 2020s, they seem a weak compromise that I wouldn't recommend to people.

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