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Five Years of Tinygrad

geohot.github.io

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Re: Five Years of Tinygrad

#121

Post by mft_ »

vileain wrote: post #3

[flagged]

As someone with no skin the game in either direciton, it's interesting that you're so triggered by the mere mention of someone's name.

Is it really so difficult to parse out different aspects of a person's existence, such that one could simultaneously appreciate some of the positives (the existence and success of SpaceX, making Tesla a success against the odds, [popularisation of] some engineering leadership concepts) while also acknowledging the negatives (of which, more latterly, there are many)?

Or must the sheer emotion always cloud out rational judgement?

Re: Five Years of Tinygrad

#122

Post by atq2119 »

webdevver wrote: post #84
rent0pat wrote: post #56

I've looked at the "only 18,935 lines of code" python code and it made me want to poke my eyes out. Not sure what's the point of this extreme code-golfing.

Down with large line counts! LLMs have done two things for us: made lines of code a commodity, but arguably even more important: made understanding an arbitrary amount of lines of code a commodity too. with this in hand, large codebases that were designed in the primordial era of requiring human cognition to grok are emabarassingly antiquated. "umm what does this mean?" -> right click -> explain with AI -> "got it".…

> HPC platforms

GPUs don't reorder instructions at all.

Re: Five Years of Tinygrad

#123

Post by hrimfaxi »

measurablefunc wrote: post #89
fragmede wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think you can do better, the code's right there and you're welcome to try! There's a giant pile of money at the end of the rainbow for you if you can uncomplexify it. (Love that talk tho)

I don't care for money but you seem to so you should focus on making as much as possible.

> pathologizing the speaker/writer does not contribute to anything either so my recommendation is to leave those out as well.

Re: Five Years of Tinygrad

#124

Post by cindyllm »

kaashif wrote: post #87
geremiiah wrote: post #36

The risk for Tinygrad is that PyTorch will create a new backend for Inductor, plug in their AMD codegen stuff and walala, PyTorch still king. I mean, they could have easily just taken that route themselves instead of bothering with a new ML framework and AD engine. 99% of the work is just the AMD codegen part of the compiler. Either way, super cool project and I wish them the best.

> walala Is this like voila or something else?

[dead]

Re: Five Years of Tinygrad

#125

Post by nisegami »

octoberfranklin wrote: post #115
JSR_FDED wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually the opposite is the problem: “International scientists rethink U.S. conference attendance“ https://www.science.org/content/article/international-scient...

This is not helpful.

It's not a helpful reply to that particular comment, but I think it's worth recognizing that the US is now in the same camp as HK or mainland China now where there will be some people who just simply cannot enter.

Re: Five Years of Tinygrad

#127

Post by NewsaHackO »

fourside wrote: post #92
Barrin92 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes, it's really crazy, if people think you're exaggerating look at this: https://github.com/tinygrad/tinygrad/blob/master/tinygrad/co... One of the cases why I think obsession with lines of code is one of the most counterproductive metrics, it always produces code like this.

You’re getting some pushback but one look at pm_reduce_collapse and I’m glad I don’t have to work in this codebase.

I agree. It is definitely readable but clearly formatting decisions were made to keep line count down over the flow of code. It isn't even just the variable names, things like having a function with a single return statement on one line, while legal, I cannot imagine why someone would do it in a non one off script code.

Re: Five Years of Tinygrad

#128

Post by andy99 »

stathibus wrote: post #96
still-learning wrote: post #16

>People get hired by contributing to the repo. It’s a very self directed job, with one meeting a week and a goal of making tinygrad better I find this organizational structure compelling, probably the closest to reaching 100% productivity in a week as you can get.

It’s hard to argue against hiring contributors, but a bounty system that pays pennies vs. market value for skilled developers shouldn’t be the only interview path, it’s borderline exploitative.

It’s not exploitive if you like working on it. I can see an additional upside here (for tinygrad) that they better screen out people who are just trying to optimize for job prospects or money, who would do better elsewhere, and get people who actually like contributing.

Few people with no innate interest in the project are likely to ramp up and start contributing just for a shot at a job. Whereas if you’re Facebook or whoever you are much more likely to get people who don’t care about the product and just have decided they can make a lot of money by jumping through the right hoops.

Re: Five Years of Tinygrad

#129

Post by TylerLives »

andy99 wrote: post #128
stathibus wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s hard to argue against hiring contributors, but a bounty system that pays pennies vs. market value for skilled developers shouldn’t be the only interview path, it’s borderline exploitative.

It’s not exploitive if you like working on it. I can see an additional upside here (for tinygrad) that they better screen out people who are just trying to optimize for job prospects or money, who would do better elsewhere, and get people who actually like contributing. Few people with no innate interest in the project are likely to ramp up and start contributing just for a shot at a job. Whereas if you’re Facebook o…

This idea that you're supposed to accept worse pay because you believe in the idea doesn't apply to George. If his companies succeed, he'll be rich. Of course, there's nothing wrong with even working for free if that's what you like, just don't make a moral principle out of it.

Re: Five Years of Tinygrad

#130

Post by andy99 »

TylerLives wrote: post #129
andy99 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not exploitive if you like working on it. I can see an additional upside here (for tinygrad) that they better screen out people who are just trying to optimize for job prospects or money, who would do better elsewhere, and get people who actually like contributing. Few people with no innate interest in the project are likely to ramp up and start contributing just for a shot at a job. Whereas if you’re Facebook o…

This idea that you're supposed to accept worse pay because you believe in the idea doesn't apply to George. If his companies succeed, he'll be rich. Of course, there's nothing wrong with even working for free if that's what you like, just don't make a moral principle out of it.

I don’t mean to imply it’s to get employees to accept lower pay. I mean that there is some implicit screening against people who are solely optimizing for high pay.

Lots of reasons why you would want to simultaneously pay well and not attract people who are optimizing for pay.

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