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The Deviancy Signal: Having "Nothing to Hide" Is a Threat to Us All

thompson2026.com

121–130 of 179 posts

Re: The Deviancy Signal: Having "Nothing to Hide" Is a Threat to Us All

#121
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe "give me your bank PIN" for those that have been waiting for an excuse to drop their pants.

Both of these are not good responses and are easily discounted by most people ("I don't take nude photos"/"I never tell anyone my pin"). Average people see zero equivalence between sending nudes or their bank pin to a specific stranger and Google keeping a record of every website they've ever visited.

Surely the "I never tell anyone my pin" is just an admission that they do have something to hide?

The point is that there are many things that should be kept private/secret and often the need for that secrecy isn't obvious to people who have never been in particular situations. A woman trying to escape from an abusive relationship may need to keep her location secret to avoid being murdered by her ex, but your typical white male who declares "nothing to hide" may have difficulty in understanding that, whereas they may be able to grasp why their PIN should be kept secret.

Re: The Deviancy Signal: Having "Nothing to Hide" Is a Threat to Us All

#122
post #54

Ok so this "nothing to hide, nothing to fear" argument is so recurrent I once went looking where it came from. The oldest account I found is in a religious book from 1832 [1]: "We must have nothing to hide, nothing to fear", but, and this is the important bit, this is in the context of your relationship with Christ. Later accounts are mostly from judicial documents like "well tell us what happened, if you have nothin…

Right, I don't think I've ever actually seen anybody make the "nothing to hide" argument. Maybe it was used more commonly in the past, but I only ever see people pre-emptively attack it without prompting. It seems to be a special case of a straw-man argument: a no-man argument. It's not the only such example, but it seems to appear without fail in the top comments in any discussion of privacy issues.

I have had many people use it when I try to either push for a private option ("please message me on Signal") or explain why I won't use a service.

Re: The Deviancy Signal: Having "Nothing to Hide" Is a Threat to Us All

#124

I’d try to take this seriously, but: https://thompson2026.com/declaration_of_war/ Umm- not sure we’re playing with a full deck here.

You should take it seriously. We are not playing. At all. It's all hands on deck, is what the (would-be) Captain is saying. Be there or be square.

Going all the way then?

Not sure if the world can handle anonympotus.

Just taking it for a ride?

Re: The Deviancy Signal: Having "Nothing to Hide" Is a Threat to Us All

#125

The author is a bit uncharitable. "I have nothing to hide" usually is a shorthand for "it would be imprudent and inconvenient to dedicate my limited time and resources to an abstract good like privacy. This would not be the case if I had something illegal or reputation-ruining to hide." Nobody denies the value of privacy, but practicality beats purity in the eyes of a person who doesn't have a particular ideological…

Right, but that practicality is predicated on the ability to switch to a more privacy-focused posture later on. And the point of the blog post is, when you need it, it won't be there when you reach for it.

Not arguing with that specific claim, but the author claims to hold a "special kind of contempt" for ordinary people making practical day-to-day choices. That attitude is much more hostile.

Re: The Deviancy Signal: Having "Nothing to Hide" Is a Threat to Us All

#126

The author is a bit uncharitable. "I have nothing to hide" usually is a shorthand for "it would be imprudent and inconvenient to dedicate my limited time and resources to an abstract good like privacy. This would not be the case if I had something illegal or reputation-ruining to hide." Nobody denies the value of privacy, but practicality beats purity in the eyes of a person who doesn't have a particular ideological…

It can also mean: I prefer the police catching murderers. I'm fine when wife cheaters get caught in the drag net. Privacy advocates never admit that there is not only a "next" government abusing surveillance, but also a "current" one, which uses surveillance for beneficial purposes.

Fair point.

Re: The Deviancy Signal: Having "Nothing to Hide" Is a Threat to Us All

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, I don't think I've ever actually seen anybody make the "nothing to hide" argument. Maybe it was used more commonly in the past, but I only ever see people pre-emptively attack it without prompting. It seems to be a special case of a straw-man argument: a no-man argument. It's not the only such example, but it seems to appear without fail in the top comments in any discussion of privacy issues.

People around me make the nothing to hide argument all the time

It’s the obvious response to what seems like paranoia to the uneducated.

Re: The Deviancy Signal: Having "Nothing to Hide" Is a Threat to Us All

#128
post #96
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's older than 1832; for example: "He who trembles at this moment is guilty. For innocence never trembles before public vigilance." Maximilien Robespierre, July 26 (8 Thermidor), 1794 (translated - the original would be in French). When it is used by surveillance advocates, they don't use the exact words. Incidentally here is that quote, with Ian Richardson as Robespierre: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOW6OfeOW10

Ah nice to know! In my defense I only searched for the English version. That being said, Robespierre was a key participant of 'La Terreur' where tens of thousands of people where hastily judged and executed and he himself ended up executed 4 months after that speech. [1] [1] https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Discours_lors_de_la_s%C3%A9an... (French version)

Indeed. "Nothing to hide, nothing to fear" has always contained implicit threat.

Re: The Deviancy Signal: Having "Nothing to Hide" Is a Threat to Us All

#129
post #114

I believe the entire western world is sleep walking into totalitarianism. It's soft glove right now, but mass surveillance, no matter what the original purpose, only needs concentration of power to turn into something truly inhumane. We've seen it already and that was well before technology pushed the boundaries of what is now possible. I just want to remind everyone that the technology and the police and all of that…

Weird example. The redditor only identified the perpetrator of the shooting because the police pulled video surveillance from all across campus and widely distributed it. He wouldn’t have been able to associate the vehicle with the suspect without those images.

Re: The Deviancy Signal: Having "Nothing to Hide" Is a Threat to Us All

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ice agents are deporting people in the US that are here illegally. How would anybody know that if they aren't allowed hearings?

I saw that comment before it was flagged and thanks to that I now have this argument that you supplied. if I arrived a couple minutes later I wouldn't know it. (I browsed logged out) I disagree with that guy but I don't know it should be flagged

The HN dead dynamic has been increasingly throwing babies out with the bathwater, and logging in (even to a throwaway account) with showdead=yes is the right call these days.

But for this particular comment, I assume it was flagged because at this point continuing to cheerlead for the fascists/destructionists with nonsense talking points is just basic flamebait. As GP said, the assertion that only illegal immigrants are being harassed/abducted/disappeared is completely unfounded - the government is not operating with transparency to demonstrate this, nor accountability for the collateral harm that we do know they have caused.

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