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Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals

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Re: Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals

#121

Post by lm28469 »

givemeethekeys wrote: post #95
MisterTea wrote: post #55

I was in Spain this past summer and it certainly seems they are experiencing tourist burnout. I saw anti tourist messages on banners hung on buildings, graffiti, posters and stickers in Madrid and Barcelona. Some of it was a bit threatening but I had zero issues. The issue of airbnb is a sticky one. On one hand, being able to temporarily live in an apartment greatly enhances the immersiveness when your travel - you g…

If there is such a burnout, then why doesn’t the government just stop letting so many people in? This feels more like a scapegoat situation.

The people profiting from the situation aren't the people dealing with the side effects, it really isn't that hard to understand... if you own a club or a building it's a gold mine. If you're just an average citizen everything is now more expensive, it's harder to find a place, you have to deal with rude people every fucking day, &c.

Re: Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals

#122

Post by QGQBGdeZREunxLe »

givemeethekeys wrote: post #95
MisterTea wrote: post #55

I was in Spain this past summer and it certainly seems they are experiencing tourist burnout. I saw anti tourist messages on banners hung on buildings, graffiti, posters and stickers in Madrid and Barcelona. Some of it was a bit threatening but I had zero issues. The issue of airbnb is a sticky one. On one hand, being able to temporarily live in an apartment greatly enhances the immersiveness when your travel - you g…

If there is such a burnout, then why doesn’t the government just stop letting so many people in? This feels more like a scapegoat situation.

Since Spain is in Schengen they won't be able to easily block tourists getting visas. Plus the visa waiver programs are usually reciprocal.

Best way to reduce tourism is to levy taxes on tourist activities.

Re: Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals

#123

Post by QGQBGdeZREunxLe »

MisterTea wrote: post #55

I was in Spain this past summer and it certainly seems they are experiencing tourist burnout. I saw anti tourist messages on banners hung on buildings, graffiti, posters and stickers in Madrid and Barcelona. Some of it was a bit threatening but I had zero issues. The issue of airbnb is a sticky one. On one hand, being able to temporarily live in an apartment greatly enhances the immersiveness when your travel - you g…

I’ve always thought a solution would be to allow Airbnb but cap the amount you can earn per property to the equivalent of an average annual rent.

This wouldn’t outright ban short-term rentals, but it would reduce the largest financial incentive.

I say this selfishly, as someone who wants to use the platform while still occupying my own place. Something that offering it as a full-time rental doesn’t allow.

Re: Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals

#124

Post by QGQBGdeZREunxLe »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #113
Stevvo wrote: post #59

Georgism is the only long-term solution to this problem. It's not like there is even disagreement on that; any economist would tell you so. However, the Landed gentry have no interest in solutions.

Which problem and which economists?

You can definitely find household named economists that don't agree with Land Value Taxes. Hell there's a grassroots push in the US to eliminate property taxes.

Re: Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals

#125

Post by dzhiurgis »

QGQBGdeZREunxLe wrote: post #124
dzhiurgis wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which problem and which economists?

You can definitely find household named economists that don't agree with Land Value Taxes. Hell there's a grassroots push in the US to eliminate property taxes.

I do like Georgism, but taxing wealth and not a transaction is just going to transfer wealth from poor to government. Similarly how capital gains tax has 0 effect on billionaires and just rip off investors (aka the poorest).

Re: Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals

#126

Post by leobg »

tedggh wrote: post #64
IG_Semmelweiss wrote: post #17

I distincly recall many articles stating that for ridiculous EUR like 50k you could buy housing in spain right after 2007 the crisis, for many years afterward. Because it was so overbuilt , at least outside of the big metros) that the builders and sellers were desperate to move. I wonder if they all wiped out by the crisis (subprime really hit spain hard), and what we are seeing now is the consequence of that wipeout…

I got myself a pretty little condo in Asturias for a steal, at least compared to US prices. I tried first just outside Madrid but it’s crazy expensive there, I saw a small and modern condo and they wanted more of what I paid for a brand new large home in the US very close to a big city, massive in size by European standards. If you want a modern tiny condo in Madrid city center you are looking at over a million euros…

Where did you find it? Any website you can recommend?

Re: Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals

#127

Post by hackable_sand »

givemeethekeys wrote: post #104
tverbeure wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“just” is doing a lot of heavy lifting here.

Tourists don’t travel illegally. What am I missing?

> travel illegally

What does this even mean? It's not illegal to travel

Re: Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals

#128

Post by Stevvo »

QGQBGdeZREunxLe wrote: post #124
dzhiurgis wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which problem and which economists?

You can definitely find household named economists that don't agree with Land Value Taxes. Hell there's a grassroots push in the US to eliminate property taxes.

For 150 years they sat in their universities teaching land value taxes are the optimal form of taxation.

Re: Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals

#129

Post by ryan_lane »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #112
showsover wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On one hand, being able to temporarily live in an apartment greatly enhances the immersiveness when your travel - you get to feel like a local and experience life in another place. Yes, if your local life is being inconsiderate and having parties till 3 because you're on holidays. Having an airbnb in your building is terrible as you don't know the people and they don't care about getting to know you. > Hotels suck…

[flagged]

> What does this mean or are you just communist coding your speech?

What they were saying is simply common sense. If an airbnb host is buying a local unit and renting it out for high prices to tourists, they're going to buy it for a higher price than someone who's simply there to live, and that's stealing the opportunity for someone to live somewhere within their means.

You don't need to be a communist to understand that it's bad for everyone to prioritize entertainment travel over the ability to afford housing in the city that you live.

Re: Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals

#130

Post by ryan_lane »

nradov wrote: post #118
MisterTea wrote: post #55

I was in Spain this past summer and it certainly seems they are experiencing tourist burnout. I saw anti tourist messages on banners hung on buildings, graffiti, posters and stickers in Madrid and Barcelona. Some of it was a bit threatening but I had zero issues. The issue of airbnb is a sticky one. On one hand, being able to temporarily live in an apartment greatly enhances the immersiveness when your travel - you g…

The weird thing is that in many cities there is a persistent and ongoing market failure where legitimate hotels in tourist areas often don't offer accommodations suitable for families with multiple children. There are often no hotel rooms with 3+ beds and kitchenette: it's not that they're more expensive, they simply don't exist at any price. So despite the social problems that Airbnb causes they do address a real ma…

> There are often no hotel rooms with 3+ beds and kitchenette

There are very few hotels with kitchenettes. Most people don't cook (and don't want to cook) on vacation. Most hotels also don't cater to the low-income, and folks who cook on travel tend to be low-income. There's business rentals that offer this, but they're often not bookable for short-terms (usually 2+ weeks minimum).

Most hotels can accommodate 5+ people in a room, if you call them. Though no rooms (except suites) will have more than 2 beds, hotels will provide cots. In general, though, rooms aren't expected to host any more than that, and if you have more people than that, the expectation is that you'd book more than one room. Plenty of hotels have adjoining rooms for this purpose.

Again, though, hotels aren't really targeting low-income folks. Airbnbs can be cheaper in this regard, but most rentals on Airbnb charge by the person, so in some cases can be as expensive or more expensive than getting 2 rooms.

In either case, I think the issue is your needs are uncommon for vacation travel.

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