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Why do commercial spaces sit vacant?

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Re: Why do commercial spaces sit vacant?

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Lowering the rent to fill their building reduces the value of that building > Additionally, lowering the rent for that building will also reduces the value of other nearby buildings that have that building as a comparable property > it's in the bank's interest to let things be vacant and keep the valuations based on the previous rent, rather than lowering the rent and facing the music. This just seems like everyone…

Other than some of the residents who don’t want to see empty storefronts, who is incentivized to push for a correction in this case? It’s a “everybody loses” scenario, this everyone pretends to believe the numbers.

> who is incentivized to push for a correction in this case?

Well, the government at the very least. From the article:

> Banks are highly regulated, so they can’t just loan whatever they want. The government insists that banks keep high margins of safety in their portfolio, and commercial loans are risky, so the terms they can offer are designed to limit risk. […] Second, the bank must keep a strict loan-to-value (LTV) ratio — so they won’t lend more than 80% of the value of the building (and often less than that).

The government says banks can’t loan more than 80% of the value of the building because it’s too risky. But what banks have done is instead maintained an inflated value of the property so they can loan out a higher percentage, which has led to the country being full of empty, overvalued property. Ie, a high risk of collapse—which is just what the regulation was intending to prevent. Lying about the value of an object to get around regulations is often considered fraud.

Re: Why do commercial spaces sit vacant?

#122
post #61

If you can pretend that 50% occupancy @ $500k per year total rent is a temporary market slump, why can't you also pretend that 100% occupancy at $700k in rent is also a temporary market slump?

Empty unit? The right tenant is coming any day now. Rented unit? Can't be rented to imaginary rich/stupid people.

> Rented unit? Can't be rented to imaginary rich/stupid people.

No, but you can raise the rents. Best case scenario, they pay the higher price. Worse case scenario they leave—which leaves you exactly where you were before, with some extra money in your pocket.

Re: Why do commercial spaces sit vacant?

#123

Pricing something based on what you project to make over 20 years seems like an insane way to go about it. Nobody can predict that far in the future. It's a no-lose scenario for banks though, which is why it's done that way I guess.

Everything is priced that way, basically. In the world of finance, everything is priced according to the future income it can generate -- not just real estate, but stocks, bonds, etc. There's nothing insane about it. To the contrary, it's the only rational way of doing things. You're right that nobody can predict correctly that far in the future, but ultimately you have to choose whether you think a business decision…

> Everything is priced that way, basically. In the world of finance, everything is priced according to the future income it can generate -- not just real estate, but stocks, bonds, etc. There's nothing insane about it. To the contrary, it's the only rational way of doing things.

The only rational way of doing things is to turn every part of our economy into a bubble? Well, that at least explains why it’s all collapsing.

Re: Why do commercial spaces sit vacant?

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the idea of a land value tax is to make it high enough to for banks to foreclose. The entire thing is about making sure land is used on the most socially benefiting way possible.

> The entire thing is about making sure land is used on the most socially benefiting way possible. The idea of land value tax is to make the government effectively the universal landowner and everyone else renters, and renters paying a high enough rent that it is economically infeasible to use land for any but the most financially remunerative purpose. Having it optimizing for social utility rather than maximizing ne…

Ok, good point.

If you optimize a lot, the social optimum is almost never the most profitable use for anything.

Re: Why do commercial spaces sit vacant?

#125
My day job is a Director level role at a large commercial real estate firm. Our primary segments are brokerage, management, and development management. I've been doing this for 11 years.

>The story starts with a building operator and a bank deciding what a building is worth. To figure this out, the operator is going to make a financial model that projects the income that a building will generate.

We're going by existing leases at the property, and take into account their expirations and rent escalations. Mostly, we're looking at current income. If a building is valued at $20M because of a $1,000,000 NOI at a 5% cap, that's because it literally has $1,000,000 of yearly income NOW and some seriously high grade tenants to justify that cap. Also, if there are no tenants in the building, we value it by things like construction value. If we're talking about new developments, we usually pre-lease and borrow based on the signed leases.

>You may wonder how the cap rate is determined. The simple answer is the owner and the bank negotiate and agree on a number.

This is disingenuous. We don't pull a cap rate out of thin air. We go by market caps on comparable properties and also factor in the credit of the existing tenants and their lease terms. There is a tiny bit of back and forth on the cap if the buyer and the bank disagree but this a matter of tenths of a percent.

All of that said, I have never known a property owner who refused to lower rents in a game of chicken with the bank and most would certainly rather fill a space with someone than keep rents elevated. If a space is empty, it's generating zero income, your NOI is therefore lower, and the building value has already decreased. The bank isn't pretending it's worth more than it is because you're advertising a certain rate. They're just giving you more time to lease the space so it doesn't have to go into receivership, which is a loss for everyone.

Beyond that, most leases are signed at or below asking rent unless the area is extremely high demand. They may not be advertising a rate drop, but anyone in this business knows that asking rents are a point to be negotiated during the leasing process.

Re: Why do commercial spaces sit vacant?

#126
> If [a vacant storefront tax] “worked,” the mechanism would be to force a lot of commercial property to default, which could put a lot of new space on the market at lower prices, which should lower the commercial rent. But it would also hurt the banks a lot, which has a history of leading to bad consequences and subsequent bailouts.

Sounds like the right trade-off to me. Let the banks get hurt for the pain that's coming to them for making a loan on an asset that declined in value, let's see if it actually causes bank bankruptcy, then let's consider bailouts. Because letting balance sheets express a lie about financial health is preferable somehow? Letting pressure continue to build until commercial property owners can't cover interest payments is preferable?

Ideally, commercial development would be done by publicly-owned companies. Instead of renting, sell the storefront for a pittance to a mom-and-pop owner operator, conditioned on occupancy and using it for primary income. If occupancy is forfeited, then sell it to a new mom-and-pop.

Selling instead of renting means there are no rent increases. You go back to having local stores that have been open for 40+ years that have a real relationship with the surrounding community. You make it possible for young chefs to get a restaurant space to prove their mettle without needing to cozy up to some wealthy financier who then sucks away most of the income. You make it possible for young people to start new independent businesses without a mortgage on their future, which helps them invest further in their surrounding community. Being able to buy cheap storefront space is what made the American Dream possible for so many immigrants to America and built the largest middle class in the world.

Re: Why do commercial spaces sit vacant?

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And in response, owners would do something slightly less silly - just enough to technically fall within the rules, and so not be subject to the tax.

Then fix those technicalities, too. People act as though laws are etched permanently into clay tablets. Lawmakers should keep iterating until the bugs are worked out and the letter of the law more closely approaches the spirit of the law. We shouldn't just always default to doing nothing because someone, somewhere is going to try to rules-lawyer their way out of it.

That's called "intervention spiral" where you need to put even more regulations on top of existing regulations because market forces are always leaking through. They should fix the underlying reason which is too restrictive zoning.

Re: Why do commercial spaces sit vacant?

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Lowering the rent to fill their building reduces the value of that building > Additionally, lowering the rent for that building will also reduces the value of other nearby buildings that have that building as a comparable property > it's in the bank's interest to let things be vacant and keep the valuations based on the previous rent, rather than lowering the rent and facing the music. This just seems like everyone…

Other than some of the residents who don’t want to see empty storefronts, who is incentivized to push for a correction in this case? It’s a “everybody loses” scenario, this everyone pretends to believe the numbers.

Everyone but current holders of property and loans. Lower property values are good thing. As that means lower rents, meaning lower overheads. Leading to cheaper goods and services for everyone. Overall property values closer to reality is good for everyone including current owners.

Re: Why do commercial spaces sit vacant?

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We were very close to repealing Prop 13 on commercial property a few years ago (via Prop 15). One of the biggest objections to a straight repeal Prop 13 on commercial property is that most commercial leases are triple-net, meaning that the businesses directly pay the taxes. Which means that a bunch of small businesses that are just barely on the edge of profitability will shut down when they finally have to pay their…

What is the limiting principle here? You note that a bunch of small business just won't be viable if you up the taxes, but you agree on the need to do it. So do you just keep upping the taxes until nothing is profitable except giant soulless corporations (who will then probably subvert the tax system anyway)?

Profitability doesn't only come from large corporations. And it's likely that many large corporations would shut down businesses too if it impacted them.

The limit is that if no other more profitable business exists, the landlord lowers rent until they get some one. But that's often a multi year discovery process. And it's very likely that person will be some other small business that wouldn't have had a chance if the same spot was occupied.

It's hard to overstate just how much the random subsidy is for Prop 13 taxes; there is literally a 20x difference purely based on when a property was purchased or a building was built. This leads to very poor and inefficient allocation of real estate to businesses.

Re: Why do commercial spaces sit vacant?

#130

Startup Idea: My company will lease your space for whatever price you want. Then we sub-lease your building at the market rate. We charge the different between the market rate for your building and what you want to charge + a small fee. That way your property retains it's "original" value, but actually gets rented out. Everyone (especially us) wins!

The world needs Someone with enormous chutzpah to try this.
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