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Announcing the Beta release of ty

astral.sh

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Re: Announcing the Beta release of ty

#121

Post by Gabrys1 »

bmitc wrote: post #55
klysm wrote: post #21

I really hope astral can monetize without a highly destructive rugpull, because they are building great tools and solving real problems.

My issue with them is that they claim their tools replace existing tools, but they don't bother to actually replicate all of the functionality. So if you want to use the full functionality of existing tools, you need to fall back on them instead of using Astral's "replacements". It's like one step forward and one step back. For me personally, speed of the tooling is not as important as what the tooling can check, whi…

Getting from 95% compatible to 100% compatible may not only take a lot of time, but also result in worsening the performance. Sometimes it's good to drop some off the less frequently used features in order to make the tool better (or allow for making the tool better)

Re: Announcing the Beta release of ty

#122

Post by albert_e »

Slight tangent

I recently viewed tutorials on uv and ruff from Corey Schafer on youtube which were excellent

Hope to make these tools part of my defaults

Look forward a similar overview by Corey on ty :)

Curious ..is there any backstory to these library names?

Re: Announcing the Beta release of ty

#123

Post by embedding-shape »

jbmsf wrote: post #70
amanzi wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"pyx" is their first commercial offering: https://astral.sh/pyx I agree though. Hope this is successful and they keep building awesome open-source tools.

We're paying for pyx. Wouldn't have if we didn't enjoy enjoy uv and ruff. It's definitely a narrow path for them to tread. Feels like the best case is something like Hashicorp, great until the founders don't want to do it anymore.

> Feels like the best case is something like Hashicorp

Wow, that's probably my go-to case of things going south, not "best case scenario". They sold to IBM, a famous graveyard for software, and on the way there changed from FOSS licensing to their own proprietary ones for software the community started to rely on.

Re: Announcing the Beta release of ty

#124

Post by superlopuh »

We've been relying on TypeForm (an experimental feature in Pyright) in xDSL. Since there are some Astral members commenting here: are there any plans to support TypeForm any time soon? It seems like you already have some features that go beyond the Python type spec, so I feel like there may be hope

Re: Announcing the Beta release of ty

#125

Post by jimmydoe »

buibuibui wrote: post #17
IshKebab wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pyright is really really good. Anyone that doubts that 10x engineers exist, just go and look at Eric Traut. He's pretty much written it single handedly. Absolute machine. Mypy is trash. Nice to have a table to point to to prove it.

Oh my, I just looked him up. He is the developer of Virtual Game Station - a PS1 emulator that I used in the past to play PS Isos on my Windows ME PC! What a legend.

Wat

Unbelievable

Re: Announcing the Beta release of ty

#126

Post by dllthomas »

wiseowise wrote: post #110
sails01 wrote: post #45

Is there any study that shows that typing in Python improves code quality and reduce runtime issues?

> Ughm, is there any study that shows that guardrails and lights on bridges reduce fatalities? > Akshually, are there any studies showing that cars riding 30 km/h kill less people than cars that ride 80 km/h?

I think there are both of those.

Re: Announcing the Beta release of ty

#127

Post by CyberThijs »

SSchick wrote: post #64
frou_dh wrote: post #6

Hopefully it gets added to this comparison: https://htmlpreview.github.io/?https://github.com/python/typ... If that table is anything to go by, Pyright is not to be underestimated. I have briefly tried ty (LSP) in Emacs and it seems to work well so far. The only questionable thing I've encountered is that when the signature of a method is shown, the type annotations of some parameters seem to be presented in a partic…

https://github.com/python/typing/pull/2137 PR is somewhat WIP-ish but I needed some motivation to do OSS work again :)

For those interested: the results page in this PR looks like this:

https://htmlpreview.github.io/?https://github.com/SimonSchic...

Re: Announcing the Beta release of ty

#128

Post by tome »

dragonwriter wrote: post #99
sails01 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not quite, static typing is used at runtime, python type annotations are not

> Not quite, static typing is used at runtime, python type annotations are not No, static typing is usually used AOT (most frequently at compile time), not usually at runtime (types may or may not exist at runtime; they don't in Haskell, for instance.) Python type checking is also AOT, but (unlike where it is inextricably tied to compilation because types are not only checked but used for code generation) it is optio…

> > Not quite, static typing is used at runtime, python type annotations are not

> No, static typing is usually used AOT (most frequently at compile time), not usually at runtime (types may or may not exist at runtime; they don't in Haskell, for instance.)

In fact, Haskell then allows you to add back in runtime types using Typeable!

https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.21.0.0/docs/Data-...

Re: Announcing the Beta release of ty

#129

Post by maccard »

I was underwhelmed by uv as a tool when it was announced, and when I started using it. For context, I'm a C++ developer who occasionally has to dip into python-land for scripts and tooling. I set up a new workstation about 6 months ago and decided I'd just use pip + venv again, and honestly I lasted 2 weeks before installing UV again. It's one of those tools that... doesn't really do much except _what you wanted the original tool to do_, and I'm hoping that Ty has the same effect.

Re: Announcing the Beta release of ty

#130

Post by maccard »

ReflectedImage wrote: post #112
petesergeant wrote: post #108

Python programmers are crying out for types it seems. It’s a shame the Python foundation haven’t blessed a spec. Better to get everyone working on a single slightly imperfect standard than a morass or differing ideas.

Speaking as a Python programmer, no. Using types in a prototyping language is madness. The point is you drop things such as types to enable rapid iteration which enables you to converge to the unknownable business requirements faster. If you want slow development with types, why not Java?

Have you written any go code? it's the closest I've come to actually enjoying a type system - it gets out of your way, and loosely enforces stuff. It could do with some more convenience methods, but overall I'd say it's my most _efficient_ type system. (not necessarily the best)
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