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The web runs on tolerance

shkspr.mobi

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Re: The web runs on tolerance

#121

Post by hmry »

zozbot234 wrote: post #104
arp242 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He talks about "throw[ing of] slurs" and "denying rights to others", "wishing violence on people because of their heritage", and that type of thing. Does not besetting people with slurs count as "diversity" now? Do you think these people will be able to do good technical work if they're constantly beset by this kind of thing? Or do you think they will retreat to somewhere where they don't have to do with that? And se…

> Does not besetting people with slurs count as "diversity" now? It depends whom you ask! There are certainly some people both off- and on-line who seem to think that uniformly slurring all white, male, cis-sexual, whatever folks as "oppressors" - and even occasionally suggesting, apparently as a serious political proposal, that "Whiteness" (whatever that means) is something that should be forcibly done away with - i…

> "Whiteness" (whatever that means)

Maybe you could look it up instead of dismissing it out of hand

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiteness_theory

Feel free to disagree afterwards, but the words do have meaning. And not knowing them is not an argument against it.

Re: The web runs on tolerance

#122

Post by watwut »

SPICLK2 wrote: post #96
47282847 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I couldn't care less You do care , otherwise you would not even have thought about it twice, let alone comment. The most striking argument against this line of reasoning is that there is no possibility for you not to act politically. By ignoring the issue of systemic discrimination (“don’t care don’t personally discriminate”) you actively contribute to and participate in the systemic discrimination. It’s a choice,…

As a person, treating everyone the same is an excellent response (and even a political one, if you wish) to counteract a system of discrimination.

People who claimed they treat everyone the same turned out embracing openly fascist, misogynistic and racist movement last 3 years.

I just do not believe it anymore when it is used exclusively to shut up people who want to say an unfairness exists.

Re: The web runs on tolerance

#123

Post by vladvasiliu »

DeathArrow wrote: post #119
vladvasiliu wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a hard time following this line of reasoning. I don't think GP's point is to "ignore systemic discrimination". Rather, it is to ignore those things on which people are discriminated. How can you discriminate against, say, race, if you don't pay attention to the person's race? Specifically, for tech, if you happen upon a code written by someone called "didgetmaster" on github, and the author makes no comment ab…

You are technically right if the goal is to stop ANY kind of discrimination. But is that the goal?

I don't know, and I admit I was operating under that assumption.

But is that not the goal? Is there some kind of discrimination which is "good", and should go on?

Re: The web runs on tolerance

#124

Post by _heimdall »

watwut wrote: post #122
SPICLK2 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a person, treating everyone the same is an excellent response (and even a political one, if you wish) to counteract a system of discrimination.

People who claimed they treat everyone the same turned out embracing openly fascist, misogynistic and racist movement last 3 years. I just do not believe it anymore when it is used exclusively to shut up people who want to say an unfairness exists.

So your belief is that anyone who would claim to treat everyone the same falls into that camp?

That's quite the characterisation to make, and a bit difficult in the context of discrimination which is based on lumping people together based on one trait and making assumptions about everyone in that group.

Re: The web runs on tolerance

#125

Post by _heimdall »

strken wrote: post #120
didgetmaster wrote: post #7

This guy lost me when he started talking about diversity issues instead of tech. I couldn't care less about the race, gender, or sexual orientation of the person(s) who created the hardware or software that I use. Does it work? Is it easy to understand and use? These are the things I am interested in. I am reminded of an early cartoon of a dog sitting at a computer saying 'On the Internet, no one knows you are a dog!…

One of the interesting things about the internet is that almost anyone who runs a web browser on their phone is using a processor designed by Sophie Wilson, a trans woman, to run a language designed by Brendan Eich, a guy who donated money to oppose gay marriage and then lost the spot as head honcho of Mozilla because of it. I often think about this and wonder if the two of them ever met, or what would have happened…

This will all go out the window if and when we need a state issued ID to access the internet.

Re: The web runs on tolerance

#126

Post by gjvc »

47282847 wrote: post #92
didgetmaster wrote: post #7

This guy lost me when he started talking about diversity issues instead of tech. I couldn't care less about the race, gender, or sexual orientation of the person(s) who created the hardware or software that I use. Does it work? Is it easy to understand and use? These are the things I am interested in. I am reminded of an early cartoon of a dog sitting at a computer saying 'On the Internet, no one knows you are a dog!…

> I couldn't care less You do care , otherwise you would not even have thought about it twice, let alone comment. The most striking argument against this line of reasoning is that there is no possibility for you not to act politically. By ignoring the issue of systemic discrimination (“don’t care don’t personally discriminate”) you actively contribute to and participate in the systemic discrimination. It’s a choice,…

what he meant was he "does not care to be told about it"

Re: The web runs on tolerance

#127

Post by akimbostrawman »

didgetmaster wrote: post #7

This guy lost me when he started talking about diversity issues instead of tech. I couldn't care less about the race, gender, or sexual orientation of the person(s) who created the hardware or software that I use. Does it work? Is it easy to understand and use? These are the things I am interested in. I am reminded of an early cartoon of a dog sitting at a computer saying 'On the Internet, no one knows you are a dog!…

>I couldn't care less about the race, gender, or sexual orientation of the person

But that makes you a bigot and you know what happens to bigots so put on the shirt, label in your bio and change your speech or HR will have a field day with you. Welcome to the "tolerant" side.

Re: The web runs on tolerance

#128

Post by liveoneggs »

47282847 wrote: post #92
didgetmaster wrote: post #7

This guy lost me when he started talking about diversity issues instead of tech. I couldn't care less about the race, gender, or sexual orientation of the person(s) who created the hardware or software that I use. Does it work? Is it easy to understand and use? These are the things I am interested in. I am reminded of an early cartoon of a dog sitting at a computer saying 'On the Internet, no one knows you are a dog!…

> I couldn't care less You do care , otherwise you would not even have thought about it twice, let alone comment. The most striking argument against this line of reasoning is that there is no possibility for you not to act politically. By ignoring the issue of systemic discrimination (“don’t care don’t personally discriminate”) you actively contribute to and participate in the systemic discrimination. It’s a choice,…

So systemic discrimination is an individual problem?

Silence is violence?

Re: The web runs on tolerance

#130

Post by akimbostrawman »

amatecha wrote: post #90
Nextgrid wrote: post #31

The right-wing extremism we now have in the US is the expected knee-jerk reaction to the left-wing extremism that came before it. In both cases there's a few true believers and a lot of opportunists who use the cause as a way to further their own agenda. It happened with the left (the master branch rename being the stupidest example), it's now happening in the right, with big words and performative actions such as IC…

What left-wing extremism was that, exactly? Extreme upholding of human rights and equality? Extreme kindness and respect for fellow human beings? Extreme acceptance of people from all backgrounds, religious beliefs and sexual orientation? Extreme letting people live their damn life in whatever way they want as long as it doesn't harm others? Yeah, who wouldn't want to push back on that, sounds terrible eh? So on this…

>Extreme kindness and respect for fellow human beings?

I hope not towards people that disagree with you or are labeled with an ism since they are monster.

>Extreme acceptance of people from all backgrounds, religious beliefs and sexual orientation?

Does that include Jihadists and child molester/groomer?

>So on this so-called extreme left, what exactly was/is so bad?

That is left as an exercise for the reader if you manage to answer truthfully.

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