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Japanese four-cylinder engine is so reliable still in production after 25 years

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Re: Japanese four-cylinder engine is so reliable still in production after 25 years

#121

Post by whaleofatw2022 »

bluGill wrote: post #70
potato3732842 wrote: post #27

25yr is "meeting expectations" for any mass market[1] engine designed after about the mid 1970s or so. A design that is both not fundamentally flawed in some way and cutting edge enough for its time to not quickly rendered obsolete the steady increase in expectations should go far longer. A design that is "ok" and cutting edge will probably go 20-30yr. A design that is behind the times, and very good (easier to not m…

Needs a million upvotes. It costs a large pile of money to design an all-new engine from the ground up that meets modern emissions and is reliable is service for hundreds of thousands of miles. You should be thinking billions of dollars. They only way to make this affordable is to amortize that cost over many many cars of many many years. Sure you will tweak the design here and there for various reasons, but the init…

So much money for an engine or transmission that some companies started collaborating...

GEMA was the collab between Chrysler/Mitsu/Hyundai for an inline 4, and GM/Ford have collaborated on a few transmissions too.

Re: Japanese four-cylinder engine is so reliable still in production after 25 years

#122

Post by zubiaur »

monegator wrote: post #61
pmontra wrote: post #30

That's a series of engines, not a single model. The FIAT FIRE [1] series has been in production for 36 years from 1985 to 2021 and, maybe you wouldn't expect it from FIAT, those engines were reliable. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fully_Integrated_Robotised_Eng...

Came here just to rant about the FIRE and the Firefly. The Multijet was also extremely reliable. Instead, they were tossed aside to promote whatever garbage came out of citroen design centers, i guess to achieve the destruction of stellantis. (except in south america, they still get to use the Firefly)

For a short while we had them in the US, on the Dodge darts and some other Fiat applications. 1.4 + multiair + sometimes turbo.

Great little engine that powered my first car, a 2005 Fiat Uno, made for the Argentinean market in Brazil: 1.4 (1.345L), 8v of reliability.

Re: Japanese four-cylinder engine is so reliable still in production after 25 years

#124

Post by Aurornis »

bluGill wrote: post #64
Aurornis wrote: post #53

The headline isn’t really true. The K series of engines has been in production for 25 years but it has been redesigned along the way. The article mentions this further down: > The K20C is Honda's current-generation of the K-Series range, upgraded to deliver strong real-world efficiency and long-term reliability across the Honda and Acura catalogs. It's also a redesign that meets stricter global emissions rules and ti…

What criteria should we use to decide if redesigns are significant enough to not claim it is the same engine?

When Honda changes the letter on the end of the motor code, that’s a good indication: They started with K20A and now it’s K20C, there was a K20Z and so on.

It’s actually very common for engine series to span decades, even though this article is presenting it like it’s an unusual achievement. Chevy has the LS, Subaru with the EJ, Mitsubishi with the 4G.

Re: Japanese four-cylinder engine is so reliable still in production after 25 years

#125

Post by Aurornis »

veunes wrote: post #80
Aurornis wrote: post #53

The headline isn’t really true. The K series of engines has been in production for 25 years but it has been redesigned along the way. The article mentions this further down: > The K20C is Honda's current-generation of the K-Series range, upgraded to deliver strong real-world efficiency and long-term reliability across the Honda and Acura catalogs. It's also a redesign that meets stricter global emissions rules and ti…

I think the article's broader point still stands: Honda built a platform with enough foresight and flexibility that it could be continuously refined rather than scrapped and replaced every few years

True, but this is actually common for engine manufacturers. Most manufacturers have an engine series that spans multiple decades.

> rather than scrapped and replaced every few years

This doesn’t really happen for mainstream engines. Maybe for specialty and exotic engines, but not the engines you see powering the commuter cars and trucks on the road. Engine development is expensive. Nobody is scrapping and replacing their bread and butter engine design every few years.

Re: Japanese four-cylinder engine is so reliable still in production after 25 years

#126

Post by Ancapistani »

bluedino wrote: post #14

GM/Chevrolet are still making small-block 350 engines, they started in the 1950's https://www.gmperformancemotor.com/parts/19433032.html

My daily driver is a '91 GMC, with a 350 (5.7L TBI). It's got 140k miles on it, burns no oil, and I fully expect it to outlive me.

Re: Japanese four-cylinder engine is so reliable still in production after 25 years

#127

Post by kristianp »

officeplant wrote: post #56
jeffbee wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps that's what's remarkable about these? They had architectures that could meet 2025 emissions standards, 25 years ago. That said the Honda "L" series engines are just as long-lived and are the even more efficient variety.

My favorite fact I used to tell people when I owned a 2008 Honda Fit was that parts of the L-Series engines was from Honda Powersport's Boat Motor lines. (the crankshaft if memory isn't failing me)

It's sad they're not making Fits anymore.

Re: Japanese four-cylinder engine is so reliable still in production after 25 years

#129

Post by qingcharles »

skywal_l wrote: post #49
pmontra wrote: post #30

That's a series of engines, not a single model. The FIAT FIRE [1] series has been in production for 36 years from 1985 to 2021 and, maybe you wouldn't expect it from FIAT, those engines were reliable. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fully_Integrated_Robotised_Eng...

I counter you with a Cleon engine[0] with 42 years. ;) But in the end an engine can be reliable but still be an environmental liability. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_Cl%C3%A9on-Fonte_engin...

I had a lot of Minis, so I'll counter with the BMC A-Series: 1951-2000

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMC_A-series_engine

Re: Japanese four-cylinder engine is so reliable still in production after 25 years

#130

Post by ErroneousBosh »

Peugeot XUD, built from 1982 until the early 2000s, and then still built today as the DW8 which is basically just an XUD9 with a different head suitable for common-rail injection fitted.

The Rover V8 that powered the P5, P6, SD1, various Landrovers and Range Rovers up to the mid-2000s, TVRs, Morgans, and so on was first built as the Rover V8 in 1964 and only stopped mass production in 2006 - although blocks are still cast and you can buy a brand new one today. If you do, I don't need to tell you that there's no price tag because you already know what you're getting into.

They were based on an earlier Buick design, which makes it all the more hilarious when people freak out about finding an exotic imported engine specialist to work on their Discovery 2 in North America. Go and ask your grandad about old Buick smallblocks...

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