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EU Council Approves New "Chat Control" Mandate Pushing Mass Surveillance

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Re: EU Council Approves New "Chat Control" Mandate Pushing Mass Surveillance

#121

Post by latexr »

npodbielski wrote: post #98
AndrewSwift wrote: post #3

It would be nice to have details: It rewards or penalizes online services depending on whether they agree to carry out “voluntary” scanning, effectively making intrusive monitoring a business expectation rather than a legal requirement.

As a first step, after that they will expand it and force to do it effectively boiling the frog. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog

From the second paragraph in your link:

> While some 19th-century experiments suggested that the underlying premise is true if the heating is sufficiently gradual, according to modern biologists the premise is false: changing location is a natural thermoregulation strategy for frogs and other ectotherms, and is necessary for survival in the wild. A frog that is gradually heated will jump out. Furthermore, a frog placed into already boiling water will die immediately, not jump out.

Re: EU Council Approves New "Chat Control" Mandate Pushing Mass Surveillance

#122

Post by mapt »

hn_throw2025 wrote: post #91
jacquesm wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a massive assumption that reform will win the elections.

I think it’s plausible that the UK electorate are sick of switching between Tories and Labour for the last hundred years, especially as they have become indistinguishable in many respects. They were held back because there wasn’t a plausible alternative that had a hope of being elected. Reform has been leading the polls for nearly all this year, so let’s check in a year to see where they stand. But Labour (especially…

While I'm sure you know much more than I do about UK politics, it seems like some systemic factor pushes both Tories and Labour and whoever else comes close to power, well to the right of their respective voters. In the US, that factor would be campaign contributions and an extremely well-funded conservative propaganda/patronage machine on a war footing.

In the UK, is it all about media ownership or something?

Re: EU Council Approves New "Chat Control" Mandate Pushing Mass Surveillance

#123

Post by GeoAtreides »

zelphirkalt wrote: post #50
arlort wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it doesn't, people are just embarrassingly ignorant of how the EU legislative process works so when a vote to give first approval to a text is cancelled before it takes place journalists and reddit all over pull out the mission accomplished banners and when a negotiating position is approved everyone has a surprised pikachu face The "proposal" was made something like 3 years ago, the killing never happened an…

This is of course a process, that does not lend itself to be democratic, because it is way longer than most people's attention span. People don't manage to remember things that happened in politics 4 years ago in their own country. Now they are required to follow up on dozens of shitty proposals, all probably illegal in their own country, and those don't even happen in their own country? That divides the number of pe…

what do you mean, a slow bureaucracy is a democratic bureaucracy. the last thing you want is a highly efficient bureaucracy enacting change quickly.

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Re: EU Council Approves New "Chat Control" Mandate Pushing Mass Surveillance

#124

Post by graemep »

cbeach wrote: post #102
exasperaited wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Net migration in the UK is falling, and fast. It grew under a party that is ideologically closer to Reform than the government currently in power.

Net migration is only falling because of record high numbers of British and European people emigrating, against a backdrop of huge (800K+) levels of gross immigration.

Firstly, why do you lump British and European together? Because they are the same "race" in your eyes?

Non-EU net migration has fallen sharply too.

It proves what was always obvious to anyone who looked at it, that high net immigration was temporary, especially the peak post covid and the special scheme for Ukrainians.

Re: EU Council Approves New "Chat Control" Mandate Pushing Mass Surveillance

#125

Post by petcat »

squigz wrote: post #113

I'm very curious what people in this thread think is happening now Do you think Meta, Google and them are not scanning every bit of data hosted on their servers to ensure they're not hosting things they don't want to? Do you think they don't cooperate with governments to share those findings? I don't disagree that this push is silly, ineffective, and bad for democracy. We should fight it and fight for the right to pr…

It's a massive difference when you consent to scanning by agreeing to the terms of service when you sign up for those services.

It is not direct state imposed laws requiring you to be scanned wherever you are and every service you are using (including ones you built yourself)

Re: EU Council Approves New "Chat Control" Mandate Pushing Mass Surveillance

#126

Post by andersa »

VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #76
liminvorous wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe 4chan is taking ofcom to court for trying to restrict their first amendment rights rather than blocking the UK, at least I'm still able to access it without a vpn.

> restrict their first amendment rights how is this relevant in the UK

A better question is how is whatever the UK is doing relevant for 4chan, which is an American company with no presence in the UK.

Re: EU Council Approves New "Chat Control" Mandate Pushing Mass Surveillance

#127

Post by apopapo »

tasoeur wrote: post #77

At this point, it’s clear these sort of measures will go through, if not now but in some foreseeable future. What would be our best bet moving forward? Moving to signal/telegram?

Overlay networks + libre and open-source software only (preferrably with reproducible builds).

Re: EU Council Approves New "Chat Control" Mandate Pushing Mass Surveillance

#128

Post by mikkupikku »

permo-w wrote: post #39
Macha wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Partly it's because the Danish have the rotating EU presidency at the moment so they have the job of pushing things forward (which also means receiving the most lobbying). In the previous wave earlier in the year, it was the Polish for the same reason. Partly it's they don't have the same pro-privacy culture that say Germany and many of the eastern european countries have. People also think the current Danish PM was…

I wonder how aware they are of the damage to the EU's reputation that they're continually creating by repeatedly bringing this back I think this theme of the EU, this lack of taboo against continually bringing unwanted laws until they pass by fatigue, it may well be the death of the institution as a whole. every time they try, every time people hear about it, more and more think worse of the EU, and unlike most weste…

You describe the EU as an undemocratic institution that brings about unwanted laws by fatigue, I understand that perspective.

You also say that the collapse of the EU would be insanely sad. I also understand that perspective.

What I don't understand is how somebody could have both of these points of view at once, in the same comment no less.

Re: EU Council Approves New "Chat Control" Mandate Pushing Mass Surveillance

#129

Post by greatgib »

What is also funny is that they are doing that at the same time that they are thinking about relaxing requirements on GDPR and things like that that are really beneficial to the citizens on the pretext to make the regulation easier for "innovation".

Re: EU Council Approves New "Chat Control" Mandate Pushing Mass Surveillance

#130

Post by VWWHFSfQ »

squigz wrote: post #113

I'm very curious what people in this thread think is happening now Do you think Meta, Google and them are not scanning every bit of data hosted on their servers to ensure they're not hosting things they don't want to? Do you think they don't cooperate with governments to share those findings? I don't disagree that this push is silly, ineffective, and bad for democracy. We should fight it and fight for the right to pr…

This is such a weird sentiment and I see it often when talking about EU politics. Is this just how the European constituency feels? Just like beatdown citizens in a government they have no passion about and no control over?
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