Bird flu viruses are resistant to fever, making them a major threat to humans • Hacker News Board

Re: Bird flu viruses are resistant to fever, making them a major threat to humans

#121

Post by xorcist » Fri, Nov 28, 2025, 11:57 AM UTC

nikolay wrote: post #92

pkulak wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlike you?

I don't take any antipyretics, nor have I given to my kids, unless the fever is 39-39.5°C and climbing. Otherwise, you're sabotaging your own innate immune system!

Sabotaging is much too strong a word. The fever is not essential to the immune system. If taking down the fever makes it easier to cook food or do something else that is important to you, go ahead.

We have had fever suppressors for so long now that we know they are not harmful to the immune system in any meaningful way.

A fever should be temporary. If you go several days with 39 C then something is wrong and you should absolutely seek medical help. People used to die from simple bacterial infections before we had antibiotics.

And be mindful of the children! Small children are wired somewhat differently and you should be much more careful with them. 39 C in a newborn can be life threatening.

Re: Bird flu viruses are resistant to fever, making them a major threat to humans

#122

Post by m4rtink » Fri, Nov 28, 2025, 12:40 PM UTC

tarsinge wrote: post #120

TeMPOraL wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Lots of people go overboard with this, though, like taking flu reduction medicine with every single cold or using medication to go to work sick. American media seems especially accepting of people taking "flu medicine" over rest and recovery. This is not specific to America; it's a thing in the entire Western world, and probably beyond. Because it's not like we have any other choice. There is no slack in the system…

But flu isn’t just a cold, it’s a serious disease. If they are sick to the point they have fever then they can’t really afford to not rest as it has a cost in the form of longer health debt. And even short term, by letting the fever run and resting and being 100% operational can be more productive than being a zombie on medications for weeks.

Not to mention it is an infectious disease that they will spread to other people if they go to work.

Re: Bird flu viruses are resistant to fever, making them a major threat to humans

#123

Post by Ukv » Fri, Nov 28, 2025, 1:30 PM UTC

jibal wrote: post #103

querez wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sentence is constructed, weirdly, but it's meant to say that fever is "killing off unknown foreign bodies"

Pain being a way to let you know that something is damaged is close to true--close enough not to quibble with. But fever is not a way to let you know that foreign bodies are being killed off--that's his claim, and it's wrong.

> But fever is not a way to let you know that foreign bodies are being killed off--that's his claim, and it's wrong.

querez's point is that the sentence is meant to be parsed as:

> pain and fever which are the bodies way of > and > respectively

So the claim is that fever is the body's way of killing off unknown foreign bodies, not the body's way of letting you know something is killing off unknown foreign bodies.

Re: Bird flu viruses are resistant to fever, making them a major threat to humans

#124

Post by Amezarak » Fri, Nov 28, 2025, 1:43 PM UTC

tarsinge wrote: post #118

binary132 wrote: post #50

Huh. I don’t know if I’m picking up what they’re putting down here, but it kind of sounds like suppressing fever e.g. with Tylenol would actually be bad for (normal) flu progression.

Isn’t it common knowledge that adults heal quicker with higher fever, and that suppressing fever is needed only if it reaches dangerous levels (in contrast to children where fever can be dangerous at lower levels)?

This is common old wive's tale. Fever itself is not dangerous in adults or children.

https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/127/3/e20103...

> There is no evidence that children with fever, as opposed to hyperthermia, are at increased risk of adverse outcomes such as brain damage.10,12,24–26 Fever is a common and normal physiologic response that results in an increase in the hypothalamic “set point” in response to endogenous and exogenous pyrogens.12,26 In contrast, hyperthermia is a rare and pathophysiologic response with failure of normal homeostasis (no change in the hypothalamic set point) that results in heat production that exceeds the capability to dissipate heat.12,26 Characteristics of hyperthermia include hot, dry skin and central nervous system dysfunction that results in delirium, convulsions, or coma.26 Hyperthermia should be addressed promptly, because at temperatures above 41°C to 42°C, adverse physiologic effects begin to occur.10,12,27 Studies of health care workers, including physicians, have revealed that most believe that the risk of heat-related adverse outcomes is increased with temperatures above 40°C (104°F), although this belief is not justified.7,26,28–30 A child with a temperature of 40°C (104°F) attributable to a simple febrile illness is quite different from a child with a temperature of 40°C (104°F) attributable to heat stroke.

You cannot get a dangerously high fever. You can get a dangerously high body temperature from heat stroke, or I suppose you could have some rare hypothalmic disease. But fever as an immune response is not dangerous to adults or children.

Re: Bird flu viruses are resistant to fever, making them a major threat to humans

#125

Post by kruffalon » Fri, Nov 28, 2025, 1:44 PM UTC

Ukv wrote: post #123

jibal wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pain being a way to let you know that something is damaged is close to true--close enough not to quibble with. But fever is not a way to let you know that foreign bodies are being killed off--that's his claim, and it's wrong.

> But fever is not a way to let you know that foreign bodies are being killed off--that's his claim, and it's wrong. querez's point is that the sentence is meant to be parsed as: > pain and fever which are the bodies way of > and > respectively So the claim is that fever is the body's way of killing off unknown foreign bodies, not the body's way of letting you know something is killing off unknown foreign bodies.

Correct!

I will edit my previous comment to make it more clear.

(Edit: Nvm, I'm not able to edit that comment any more, I've still not understood the edit-function here)

Re: Bird flu viruses are resistant to fever, making them a major threat to humans

#126

Post by Amezarak » Fri, Nov 28, 2025, 1:47 PM UTC

bee_rider wrote: post #90

binary132 wrote: post #50

Huh. I don’t know if I’m picking up what they’re putting down here, but it kind of sounds like suppressing fever e.g. with Tylenol would actually be bad for (normal) flu progression.

It is, as others have pointed out. Although, we’re very unusual humans in the grand scheme of things. So using medication might be reasonable. The brain might start taking damage around 104F. That was probably a good tradeoff for a peasant farmer (our ancestors, on average). Most of us nowadays just think for a living, not such a good tradeoff for us. Take the fever suppressant, what’s the worst that’ll happen if you…

You do not get brain damage from fever.

https://www.seattlechildrens.org/conditions/a-z/fever---myth...

Re: Bird flu viruses are resistant to fever, making them a major threat to humans

#127

Post by benterix » Fri, Nov 28, 2025, 1:49 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #105

jeroenhd wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fever helps against all kinds of illnesses but it can also be deadly, so having fever reducting medicine around is a smart precaution IMO. If you're otherwise healthy and are dealing with a mild seasonal infection and have got something important going on, I can see why people would choose to reduce symptoms at the cost of taking longer to recover. Lots of people go overboard with this, though, like taking flu reduct…

> Lots of people go overboard with this, though, like taking flu reduction medicine with every single cold or using medication to go to work sick. American media seems especially accepting of people taking "flu medicine" over rest and recovery. This is not specific to America; it's a thing in the entire Western world, and probably beyond. Because it's not like we have any other choice. There is no slack in the system…

> Most people can't afford to have more than a few sick days in a year

I believe it's true in the USA, but not necessarily in Europe. It's quite normal that you have two infections a year, plus sometimes your kid catches something at a completely different time, so the law protects you in these situations.

Re: Bird flu viruses are resistant to fever, making them a major threat to humans

#128

Post by TeMPOraL » Fri, Nov 28, 2025, 2:02 PM UTC

benterix wrote: post #127

TeMPOraL wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Lots of people go overboard with this, though, like taking flu reduction medicine with every single cold or using medication to go to work sick. American media seems especially accepting of people taking "flu medicine" over rest and recovery. This is not specific to America; it's a thing in the entire Western world, and probably beyond. Because it's not like we have any other choice. There is no slack in the system…

> Most people can't afford to have more than a few sick days in a year I believe it's true in the USA, but not necessarily in Europe. It's quite normal that you have two infections a year, plus sometimes your kid catches something at a completely different time, so the law protects you in these situations.

Yes, but there's what the law says, and there's process, and there's expectations.

You can't just take a legal sick day each time you have a runny nose (good luck finding a doctor that fast), and even if you could, you'd quickly stand out. "Two infections a year" is an average for adults who power through remaining ones with painkillers and cough meds; if they didn't, we'd be talking 5+, probably closer to 10 if they have kindergarten-age kids.

Re: Bird flu viruses are resistant to fever, making them a major threat to humans

#129

Post by TeMPOraL » Fri, Nov 28, 2025, 2:08 PM UTC

tarsinge wrote: post #120

TeMPOraL wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Lots of people go overboard with this, though, like taking flu reduction medicine with every single cold or using medication to go to work sick. American media seems especially accepting of people taking "flu medicine" over rest and recovery. This is not specific to America; it's a thing in the entire Western world, and probably beyond. Because it's not like we have any other choice. There is no slack in the system…

But flu isn’t just a cold, it’s a serious disease. If they are sick to the point they have fever then they can’t really afford to not rest as it has a cost in the form of longer health debt. And even short term, by letting the fever run and resting and being 100% operational can be more productive than being a zombie on medications for weeks.

"Common cold" is what we call flu/COVID/bunch of other stuff when symptoms aren't severe enough to bother checking. There is no "cold virus", as cold isn't a specific sickness but a destination; it's a catch-all for respiratory pathogens that evolve their potency away.

By the time someone is able to tell they have "the flu", they should've been on a sick leave for 2-3 days already.

Re: Bird flu viruses are resistant to fever, making them a major threat to humans

#130

Post by TeMPOraL » Fri, Nov 28, 2025, 2:11 PM UTC

m4rtink wrote: post #122

tarsinge wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But flu isn’t just a cold, it’s a serious disease. If they are sick to the point they have fever then they can’t really afford to not rest as it has a cost in the form of longer health debt. And even short term, by letting the fever run and resting and being 100% operational can be more productive than being a zombie on medications for weeks.

Not to mention it is an infectious disease that they will spread to other people if they go to work.

By the time they can tell it's "the flu" and not just "a cold", they've been infecting everyone for days already.

Not to mention, cold is an infectious disease too (it's literally the same disease, just a weaker variant caused by strains that evolved their potency away), it too will spread to other people if they go to work.