Earlier quoted context omitted.
The self hosted version needs an account outside your network?
Apparently. I'm stuck at waiting for a confirmation e-mail.
PENPOT_FLAGS=disable-email-verificationPenpot: The Open-Source Figma
121–130 of 213 posts
Re: Penpot: The Open-Source Figma
#122Earlier quoted context omitted.
For now. Mattermost too used to be cheaper than Slack, and Gitlab too used to be cheaper than GitHub. I know the story, "look we did X, the open-source Y" and two years in you now have two versions, the free and the "enterprise" one with exclusive features.
What would be a better way to fund large-scale open source projects in your opinion? Please don’t say donations because that doesn’t work for something as complex as the projects you mentioned Edit: ok there are some where it works like Blender - no idea how they do it though…
> What would be a better way to fund large-scale open source projects in your opinion?
Same price for same core feature set would be a good start. Or lower price for smaller feature set.
Having a premium price for a reduced product means your target audience is limited to people willing to pay a premium for a lesser product to support open source. There are some groups willing to do this, but most simply want a tool that does the job without adding too much to their already huge SaaS budget.
I’m extremely sensitive to core workflow tools for a company these days. It only takes a few days of lost work because some tool corrupted your design or the engineers have to spend a few days working around an issue in a tool to make the effective cost of using that tool extremely high.
Engineering time is expensive. If a tool that costs $20 per person per month causes even one issue per month that potentially produces hours of work and rework (like the spontaneously resizing element a commenter above noted) then the true cost is going to be in the hundreds or thousands of dollars per month in lost productivity.
Re: Penpot: The Open-Source Figma
#123Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's a little like "unlimited holidays". If you turn up on day 1 and then say "Right, I'm off on my unlimited holidays! See you never!" and disappeared, they would stop paying you. There is an implicit fair use clause in all unlimited offers - I know a guy who pushed back on "unlimited holidays" because he didn't want to get penalised in performance reviews and it turns out that in his UK-based org it was 29 days a y…
Hah. I'm a self employed freelancer, but a friend works for (MegaCorp Intl) and every time we go for beers he mentions that he has "Unlimited Paid Time Off" . But whenever I ask if that means he could take a few months to hike the Andes with me, he says.... well, no, actually they'd fire him if he took too much time. How much is too much? I ask. Well basically anything that would make them notice his absence, apparen…
Every company is different. I’ve had the “unlimited time off” company where the CEO would go after anyone who took a week or more.
I’ve also had the unlimited time off company where I took an actual month off and it was fine because I got my work done.
Re: Penpot: The Open-Source Figma
#124Earlier quoted context omitted.
HN users want to know if you're allowed to host the whole Internet on it.
This is why we can't have nice things. People see 'unlimited' and will do everything in their power to 'fact-check' it, forcing the producer to place a 'hard cap' and making everyone's life worse.
Can confirm. Worked at a startup with some very generous (though not “unlimited”) limits designed to allow for bursts and spikes of usage.
Some people took it upon themselves to try to abuse and saturate the limits to “prove” that we couldn’t handle it.
We could actually handle it, but it wasn’t worth offering it to this small number of users who were trying to prove a point by abusing it to the max without an actual use case. They just wanted to show off on Reddit that the were making our servers suffer.
Re: Penpot: The Open-Source Figma
#125Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not a lie if no one is abusing it. Travel to high trust societies if you don't get what I mean. Things would be so much easier if we could expect human decency and ethics, even if there is no law against it, because it goes against our values as humans.
Things would be so much easier if there weren’t a super small minority of extremely greedy rich and powerful people who ruin it for everyone… Alas we decided collectively that money trumps(sic) everything so low trust society is the natural consequence of this. At its core it’s a spiritual problem. Capitalism is cool but making it a religion has its trade offs.
In my experience the SaaS unlimited abusers often aren’t even trying to do capitalism things. They’re just abusing the systems for the thrill of it.
They go on Reddit and brag and compete about doing useless things to store files on these services, like a competition. They’re bragging on HN about GitHub tools that force files into a non-file service and have rate limiters tuned to upload right at the server’s rate limit.
It’s not capitalism, it’s people thinking they’re winning points against capitalism by abusing a corporation. Even if that corporation is a small startup trying to offer a product on a small budget.
Re: Penpot: The Open-Source Figma
#126Earlier quoted context omitted.
Unrelated but imgur is basically malware at this point. I had to click through so many layers of nagging popups (including a “don’t support us” button, then a severely low-contrast “view in safari” button on a dialog explicitly designed to get me to accidentally click the app link), then when I finally got to your picture, any sort of interaction with the page whatsoever, including pinch-zooming to see the image, jus…
Can you suggest a low-effort alternative I can use in future?
Re: Penpot: The Open-Source Figma
#127Earlier quoted context omitted.
> A problem like that should be extremely jarring Agreed - I don't see how its not glaringly obvious to anyone who uses the app: https://imgur.com/a/hZ1ja9o
Unrelated but imgur is basically malware at this point. I had to click through so many layers of nagging popups (including a “don’t support us” button, then a severely low-contrast “view in safari” button on a dialog explicitly designed to get me to accidentally click the app link), then when I finally got to your picture, any sort of interaction with the page whatsoever, including pinch-zooming to see the image, jus…
strange, I got no pop ups at all
Re: Penpot: The Open-Source Figma
#128Earlier quoted context omitted.
What would be a better way to fund large-scale open source projects in your opinion? Please don’t say donations because that doesn’t work for something as complex as the projects you mentioned Edit: ok there are some where it works like Blender - no idea how they do it though…
The open core model is fine, but your community edition should be a reasonably complete product. Gitlab is a good example of this. They're not selling access, they're selling convenience. The features that differentiate to enterprise customers don't matter to small shops anyhow: policy compliance, monitoring, fancy reporting, fine grained access control,etc. Give away tools that are useful for individuals and small t…
You're naive if you think those don't affect small shops.
If you want to do enterprise software, even as a small shop, things like requiring pull request approvals is an absolute must.
Our customers demand it.
Doesn't matter how many employees we have, or how profitable we are. If we want to sell software to most large CPG companies, this stuff is non-negotiable.
So I just use GitHub.
Re: Penpot: The Open-Source Figma
#129Earlier quoted context omitted.
> A problem like that should be extremely jarring Agreed - I don't see how its not glaringly obvious to anyone who uses the app: https://imgur.com/a/hZ1ja9o
Unrelated but imgur is basically malware at this point. I had to click through so many layers of nagging popups (including a “don’t support us” button, then a severely low-contrast “view in safari” button on a dialog explicitly designed to get me to accidentally click the app link), then when I finally got to your picture, any sort of interaction with the page whatsoever, including pinch-zooming to see the image, jus…
Yeah, imgur had very simple & humble origins and fostered a surprisingly active, reddit-like community (though I'm sure imgurians would resent that particular comparison), and then holy shit it just turned into a bizarrely bloated overstuffed hodgepodge of fire-garbage. I just looked at the homepage for the first time in forever and—wait, what? "Arcade"?
Bleh.
Re: Penpot: The Open-Source Figma
#130Earlier quoted context omitted.
The closest analogy would be Sketch for macOS, which Figma simply copied at first, and then mostly replaced. I would love to see open source Sketch for open source systems.
Figma has set an expectation for designers that their projects support multi-user editing by default and are available to clients, teammates and stakeholders without having to install anything. Its hard to go against that kind of productivity in any org. Penpot provides the same.
I’m actually surprised it delivers on the promise. Last time I checked it a couple of years back, it was nowhere near.