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California DMV approves map increase in Waymo driverless operations

dmv.ca.gov

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Re: California DMV approves map increase in Waymo driverless operations

#121

Post by dmix »

Analemma_ wrote: post #112
enraged_camel wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically it is the very problem taxis had that allowed Uber and Lyft to grow in popularity. Funny how that works!

Yeah, drivers want to maximize their hourly revenue, and this is frequently at odds with the wants of passengers. For a while, VC subsidies meant Uber and Lyft could pretend they were fundamentally different somehow, but that's all over now that they're public, and the classic misaligned incentives between drivers and passengers are back in play. The cars are increasingly beat-up too, another thing we incorrectly bel…

> For a while, VC subsidies meant Uber and Lyft could pretend they were fundamentally different somehow

You must have very rosy glasses because calling a tired/rude Taxi operator at 1am and not knowing whether your cab was coming in 5 or 20min was a major drag, so you always had to plan for 20min+ and sit patiently without social media to fill the void.

Having 2 ubers cancel before you get a 3rd commitment, within a short time frame, and only at the airport or a busy concert isn't that bad at all. Modern entitlement IMO

> The cars are increasingly beat-up too

Regular taxis never had an anonymous review system and they often just bought old police cars, used by 2 drivers across 2 day/night shifts . Good chance the night driver drank on the job too

Uber requires them to have a newish car which in my experience is usually a decent hybrid. A big improvement IMO (although I do love old crown Vic's from back in the pre Uber days).

If anything the biggest issue is Uber not strictly enforcing reuse of other authorized drivers accounts, usually by immigrants without official company clearance

Re: California DMV approves map increase in Waymo driverless operations

#122

Post by AlotOfReading »

tobyjsullivan wrote: post #68
freddie_mercury wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you know it isn't already at that price? Uber estimated that it costs Waymo $2/mile to operate. Google says they charge $1.60 to $2.60 a mile, depending on location and demand, so Waymo is already almost certainly at the price you claim you'd be taking it. I think you dramatically underestimate how much it actually costs to operate a car. Most people think they pay $0 to garage their car, for instance, since t…

> Google says they charge $1.60 to $2.60 a mile That’s surprising. I’ve been trying to find data on rates and crowd-sourced data and anecdotes seem closer to $6/mile

You get completely different numbers if you go by overall cost / distance vs taxi pricing models. In the latter, you separate out the flag drop fee (~$10 for Waymo) from the mileage and time process. Here's an experimental Waymo price tracker trying to estimate these numbers:

https://waymo-pricing.streamlit.app/

$2 is a good target for the AV mileage rate. It's actually somewhat high if I put my industry hat on for a second. It's not a good estimate for the number you'll get from doing total_price/distance.

Re: California DMV approves map increase in Waymo driverless operations

#123

Post by foooorsyth »

virtue3 wrote: post #70
Rodeoclash wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will undoubtedly get enshittifed in its own way, probably higher prices, but at least it will be reliable when booked. Ubers seem to be a crap shoot these days if they're actually going to come and get you.

the same exact problems we had with Taxis. Sigh.

Had so many Boston cabs not show up for rides to the airport growing up. Uber was such a breath of fresh air…until it wasn’t anymore.

Re: California DMV approves map increase in Waymo driverless operations

#124

Post by Ferret7446 »

mlmonkey wrote: post #103
willio58 wrote: post #26

I didn’t think I’d be so pro Waymo but anecdotally I had a fantastic experience with one recently. I was at a music show very late ~1-2am in SF and walked out to grab an uber to the airbnb I was staying at. I kept getting assigned an uber, then I’d wait 10 minutes, then they’d cancel. Rinse and repeat for 30 minutes, mind you I even resorted to calling Lyfts at the same time and nothing bit. Then I say screw it and d…

I once had a Waymo cancel on me too! I was pretty bummed: dang, let down by a robotaxi too?!?!? To be fair, it has happened only once.

Maybe the last rider puked in it or something?

Re: California DMV approves map increase in Waymo driverless operations

#125

Post by nutjob2 »

alooPotato wrote: post #91
dragonwriter wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's an approved map because the approval process requires the manufacturer to specify both areas and conditions they are applying for, and documents supporting that the vehicle is ready to be operated autonomously in those areas and conditions (which doesn't just include technical readiness, but also administrative readiness in the form of things like a law enforcement interaction plan, etc.) > like i get having…

My question is why they even have to apply for specific areas to begin with? Just approve the manufacturer for certain conditions and let them operate wherever they want.

> administrative readiness in the form of things like a law enforcement interaction plan

Re: California DMV approves map increase in Waymo driverless operations

#126

Post by nutjob2 »

njarboe wrote: post #8
Fricken wrote: post #2

It's been a long time coming, but Waymo is doing it. Waymo is scaleable and on the march! They've been announcing plans to roll out in new cities every month or 2 all year, and by the end of 2026 they'll be testing or offering the public rides over 30 metropolitan areas. I'm most curious to see how they do in the winter city of Minneapolis over the next several months.

Competition does encourage action. Glad Tesla started rolling out their robotaxies.

Unless Waymo has started offering vaporware, Tesla is not the competition.

Re: California DMV approves map increase in Waymo driverless operations

#127

Post by nutjob2 »

qwerpy wrote: post #95
hintklb wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla is not competition to Waymo. There are 10 other companies that are currently testing without a driver. Those are competition. Tesla so far is a gimmick of self-driving with a safety driver that takes over once in a while. That's where Waymo was more than 5 years ago.

The recent version of FSD in my Tesla is pretty amazing. Press "Start FSD" when in my driveway, and 20 minutes later it arrives at my destination and parks, without any input from me the entire time. I was skeptical too about FSD for a while but I'm starting to believe. These days I pretty much only disengage it when I'm impatient that it's being too polite. Unsupervised isn't far off!

One successful ride on one route is not dispositive

Re: California DMV approves map increase in Waymo driverless operations

#128

Post by NewJazz »

freddie_mercury wrote: post #54
epicureanideal wrote: post #21

I’m looking forward to the day when the cost of taking one of these falls to somewhere 20% above the cost of fuel and wear and tear on the vehicle, making it incredibly cheap to take a ride anywhere you’d reasonably want to be driven to.

How do you know it isn't already at that price? Uber estimated that it costs Waymo $2/mile to operate. Google says they charge $1.60 to $2.60 a mile, depending on location and demand, so Waymo is already almost certainly at the price you claim you'd be taking it. I think you dramatically underestimate how much it actually costs to operate a car. Most people think they pay $0 to garage their car, for instance, since t…

Yeah 1bd condos with parking in my city are easily 20% more expensive. Something like 1.5-2k a year to rent a spot.

Re: California DMV approves map increase in Waymo driverless operations

#129

Post by squeaky-clean »

dmix wrote: post #121
Analemma_ wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, drivers want to maximize their hourly revenue, and this is frequently at odds with the wants of passengers. For a while, VC subsidies meant Uber and Lyft could pretend they were fundamentally different somehow, but that's all over now that they're public, and the classic misaligned incentives between drivers and passengers are back in play. The cars are increasingly beat-up too, another thing we incorrectly bel…

> For a while, VC subsidies meant Uber and Lyft could pretend they were fundamentally different somehow You must have very rosy glasses because calling a tired/rude Taxi operator at 1am and not knowing whether your cab was coming in 5 or 20min was a major drag, so you always had to plan for 20min+ and sit patiently without social media to fill the void. Having 2 ubers cancel before you get a 3rd commitment, within a…

I frequently have to wait 20-30 minutes for an Uber or Lyft pickup at my apartment in south Brooklyn. I'm sure it doesn't help that I'm usually going somewhere like Bay Ridge if I'm ordering an Uber and not somewhere popular. If it's after 1am I just open both Lyft and Uber and book both because at least one of them will just park the car and not come and wait out the timer before it assigns a new driver. I wish the situation is them just canceling, but drivers get penalized for that but apparently don't get penalized for parking at a gas station waiting for you to cancel and pay the fee or sit out the 10 minutes.

One time the guy was just 3 blocks away so I walked to where his icon was, found the car, and banged on his window.

During a weekend trip to Orlando trying to get from our hotel to Disney it took 6 drivers until someone finally came to pick us up.

At least the price is given ahead of time and paid through the app. I once had a cab driver charge my card for $300 when I was borderline blackout drunk in Miami Beach trying to get back to mainland Miami. Didn't use the card reader in the cab either, he used something like a Square reader on his phone. Not exactly sure which one, I didn't piece together what he was doing was fishy until the next afternoon when some blurry memories started coming back and I called my bank.

Re: California DMV approves map increase in Waymo driverless operations

#130

Post by mat_b »

ohyoutravel wrote: post #110
willio58 wrote: post #26

I didn’t think I’d be so pro Waymo but anecdotally I had a fantastic experience with one recently. I was at a music show very late ~1-2am in SF and walked out to grab an uber to the airbnb I was staying at. I kept getting assigned an uber, then I’d wait 10 minutes, then they’d cancel. Rinse and repeat for 30 minutes, mind you I even resorted to calling Lyfts at the same time and nothing bit. Then I say screw it and d…

This is what radicalized me. “Uber is 4 minutes away” so I call them, and it tells me it’s trying to find drivers for the next 6-8 minutes, then a driver is selected and they are 11 minutes away, then they sit at their location for 4-5 minutes, then they start moving toward me, then they’re 5 minutes away and cancel and uber changes to finding me a ride. Infuriating.

Same here. This is the exact reason why I will use Waymo before Uber now. I wanted to support human drivers but they let me down too often. I pick robots now.
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