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PHP 8.5

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121–130 of 197 posts

Re: PHP 8.5

#121

Post by spiderfarmer »

phplovesong wrote: post #31

PHP should REALLY focus on getting the core stuff in shape. Its still so annoying that you have to use mb_real_uppercase($name) for unicode. The other gripe is that the stdlib is SO messy. With PHP 5.3 they had a once in a lifetime opportunity to cleanup the stdlib and introduce a new namespaced API for builtins, and optionally introduce a uniform function call syntax: "foo"->strtoupper(); Whenever doing PHP the time…

> i dont see it being a pick for greenfield projects in 2025

You don't see it because you're not looking. There are many Laravel jobs in my area. If you think that is only for Legacy projects, might be mistaken.

Re: PHP 8.5

#122

Post by erickf1 »

johnisgood wrote: post #33
darkamaul wrote: post #26

PHP's evolution since PHP 5 has been substantial, and I think this is a real problem. As someone who learned the language years ago, the pace of change (generics, attributes, match expressions, typed properties) makes modern codebases genuinely difficult to follow. I suspect this affects many developers who cut their teeth on PHP but haven't kept up. The language has become a different beast, which is a strength for…

I think PHP is way better now than it used to be. Learn PHP 8 and you are good to go.

Until two years later the same thing is said about PHP 9, 10, 11. Constant change is not good.

Re: PHP 8.5

#125

Post by johnisgood »

erickf1 wrote: post #122
johnisgood wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think PHP is way better now than it used to be. Learn PHP 8 and you are good to go.

Until two years later the same thing is said about PHP 9, 10, 11. Constant change is not good.

People still complain about PHP saying how it is not secure at all, how shitty of a language it is, and so on, because they are stuck at PHP 5. Everyone should just start from PHP 8.

I have no clue what the future brings for PHP, but PHP 8 is definitely a good start, and we should put PHP 5 to rest.

PHP 10 might not be that different from PHP 8 for all I know.

We do not know if there will be "constant change". Out of curiosity, what programming language do you use that you also love?

FWIW, if by "constant change" you mean improvements or bug fixes, then I do not see why we should not have those. I do not even mind breaking backwards compatibility if the reasons for breaking justifies it, but it has to be a really good reason.

Re: PHP 8.5

#126

Post by tehbeard »

darkamaul wrote: post #26

PHP's evolution since PHP 5 has been substantial, and I think this is a real problem. As someone who learned the language years ago, the pace of change (generics, attributes, match expressions, typed properties) makes modern codebases genuinely difficult to follow. I suspect this affects many developers who cut their teeth on PHP but haven't kept up. The language has become a different beast, which is a strength for…

You can still write php 5-esque slop and have it run... mostly (some particulars like the half dozen ways of interpolating a variable into a string have been paired down, some extensions left in the dustbin, but the fundamental "shit out a script and run it" capability still remains doable).

non of the "modern" things are particularly taxing to teach someone with more than two braincells. If they don't understand them then they haven't kept up with ANY programming trends in the past decade and are best placed infront of the TV with an iPad than left to mess with the possible critical infrastructure of a business.

Re: PHP 8.5

#127

Post by tim333 »

segmondy wrote: post #113
darkamaul wrote: post #26

PHP's evolution since PHP 5 has been substantial, and I think this is a real problem. As someone who learned the language years ago, the pace of change (generics, attributes, match expressions, typed properties) makes modern codebases genuinely difficult to follow. I suspect this affects many developers who cut their teeth on PHP but haven't kept up. The language has become a different beast, which is a strength for…

It's a real problem with almost all software today, nothing ever gets done. they just keep piling unto it no matter how great it was. the idea of simplicity as a goal and feature is lost on this generation.

Simplicity may often get ignored but I think it's been a big reason for Python's success which has gone from about #10 on the TIOBE language list to #1 since when I started learning it, which was probably around when the XKCD "everything is so simple" cartoon came out. (https://xkcd.com/353/)

Re: PHP 8.5

#128

Post by array_key_first »

deaddodo wrote: post #52
pjmlp wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true for most languages though, compare C# 14 with C# 1.0, Java 25 with Java 1.0, C 23 (plus common compiler extensions) with K&R C,....

C hasn’t changed all that much, and someone who coded in C99 would take about 30mins to catch up to a modern C23 codebase’s changes. Famously so, as conservatism to change is the main friction in the community for about two decades now. If you pull out examples of the earliest C, sure, it looks weird . But that C was already obsolete in 1989. Since then, it’s had a minor iteration (e.g. five-eight additions/modificat…

C, as a language, is very simple. Which leads to horribly complex and monsterous code, especially in large projects. The language makes even simple paradigms impossible to represent, forcing you, instead, to just remember what to do and then do that every time, forever.

Re: PHP 8.5

#129

Post by segmondy »

tim333 wrote: post #127
segmondy wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a real problem with almost all software today, nothing ever gets done. they just keep piling unto it no matter how great it was. the idea of simplicity as a goal and feature is lost on this generation.

Simplicity may often get ignored but I think it's been a big reason for Python's success which has gone from about #10 on the TIOBE language list to #1 since when I started learning it, which was probably around when the XKCD "everything is so simple" cartoon came out. ( https://xkcd.com/353/ )

I have been programming in python since the 90's too. The success IMO is still that it retains the simplicity and CFFI. Moving up TIOBE is more of CFFI and the ecosystem.

Re: PHP 8.5

#130

Post by thefounder »

I think php should have stopped at php4 or php5 and maybe just develop a new/sane standard library.

And a new language could have been developed , call it hack or whatever Facebook tried. Anyway I remember php coding gave me headaches. Tried it again 2 years ago and found out the same kind of issues(outdated /inexistent documentation, different ways to do the same thing that actually didn’t work and stuff like that). Try to connect to sql database using ssl and see what I mean.

I see no reason to learn PHP anymore or start up your company using php. We live in a vps/docker age. The advantage of php hosts everywhere has been lost.

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