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Two recently found works of J.S. Bach presented in Leipzig [video]

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Re: Two recently found works of J.S. Bach presented in Leipzig [video]

#121

Post by throaway123213 »

prmph wrote: post #103
lordleft wrote: post #7

Bach is the greatest composer and perhaps the greatest artist in human history. Full stop. He is able to condense so much complexity into his works, and he speaks to the heart as equally as he speaks to the intellect. He is proof that the mind and the heart do not have to be at cross purposes, but can be wholly engaged together when stimulated by sublime works of art.

I disagree; I find many of Bach’s compositions to be devoid of heart, just intellectual in some mathematical way. Now don’t get me wrong, I do enjoy many of his compositions for what they are. The thing about music and many other arts is that it is a fools errand to attempt to give them a total ordering; there are things to enjoy about wildly differing styles of music that I think people do a disservice to themselves…

Actually it's a myth that classical music wasn't meant to be danced to. There was much dancing going on.

Re: Two recently found works of J.S. Bach presented in Leipzig [video]

#122

Post by throaway123213 »

lukan wrote: post #90
stavros wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to say, I enjoyed "Nah Bach shits on Mozart" much more than I should have.

Is that because there is some more depth to the joke, that Mozart did this for real "when mozart was out touring europe getting drunk and shitting on women" - "shit on women"? So Bach metaphorically shits on Mozart for being the greater composer who was in it for the music and now gets more fame? Because I was rather appalled by that language, but maybe lack background context.

Its well-known that Mozart had a poop obsession.

https://www.thepiano.sg/piano/read/mozart-and-his-infamous-l...

Re: Two recently found works of J.S. Bach presented in Leipzig [video]

#123

Post by throaway123213 »

bombcar wrote: post #97
tzs wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bach was a working church musician when mozart was out touring europe getting drunk and shitting on women Bach died 6 years before Mozart was born.

He was still working!! He was just decomposing instead of composing. (Old sixth grade camp joke)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiQOaK8Mv6E

Re: Two recently found works of J.S. Bach presented in Leipzig [video]

#124

Post by prmph »

spectralista wrote: post #101
lordleft wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand that a comment such as mine would rankle. I acknowledge that art is subjective, that there's no accounting for taste, etc. And yet, I don't really believe that, deep down. If I did, I'm not entirely sure how I could speak meaningfully to the differences between great and no so great art. Is War and Peace really as good as any other novel? Would it be possible for any two people to meaningfully communicat…

Bach's catalog would be like if Tolstoy wrote maybe 100 novels on the level of War and Peace. It has nothing to do with subjective taste. The immensity of Bach's work is almost inhuman. That still wouldn't capture Bach's influence on western music though. The combination of the immensity, originality and influence is just mind boggling.

A large and immense catalog does not greatness make. I consider Mussorgsky's Pictures At an Exhibition to be one of the greatest compositions ever, and yet Mussorgsky was probably not the most prolific composer.

Re: Two recently found works of J.S. Bach presented in Leipzig [video]

#125

Post by lukan »

throaway123213 wrote: post #122
lukan wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that because there is some more depth to the joke, that Mozart did this for real "when mozart was out touring europe getting drunk and shitting on women" - "shit on women"? So Bach metaphorically shits on Mozart for being the greater composer who was in it for the music and now gets more fame? Because I was rather appalled by that language, but maybe lack background context.

Its well-known that Mozart had a poop obsession. https://www.thepiano.sg/piano/read/mozart-and-his-infamous-l...

Hm. Not convinced that this qualifies for a poop obsession. Rather sounds like using language for a shock effect(on 2 occasions), but thanks for the link.

Re: Two recently found works of J.S. Bach presented in Leipzig [video]

#126

Post by missedthecue »

prmph wrote: post #103
lordleft wrote: post #7

Bach is the greatest composer and perhaps the greatest artist in human history. Full stop. He is able to condense so much complexity into his works, and he speaks to the heart as equally as he speaks to the intellect. He is proof that the mind and the heart do not have to be at cross purposes, but can be wholly engaged together when stimulated by sublime works of art.

I disagree; I find many of Bach’s compositions to be devoid of heart, just intellectual in some mathematical way. Now don’t get me wrong, I do enjoy many of his compositions for what they are. The thing about music and many other arts is that it is a fools errand to attempt to give them a total ordering; there are things to enjoy about wildly differing styles of music that I think people do a disservice to themselves…

jesu joy of mans desiring is such a simple melody but at least in my brain chemistry sounds like a doorway to heaven. I find it full of heart and emotion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZR0GenPc2lU

Re: Two recently found works of J.S. Bach presented in Leipzig [video]

#127

Post by prybeng »

jawilson2 wrote: post #104
lordleft wrote: post #7

Bach is the greatest composer and perhaps the greatest artist in human history. Full stop. He is able to condense so much complexity into his works, and he speaks to the heart as equally as he speaks to the intellect. He is proof that the mind and the heart do not have to be at cross purposes, but can be wholly engaged together when stimulated by sublime works of art.

Something I have always been interested about, but sort of afraid to ask because it is a VERY small jump to unintended racism... Are there any composers from other cultures that come close to doing what Bach (and Mozart, Beethoven, Stravinsky, etc) did? Like, I want to hear the Japanese equivalent of the Brandenburg Concertos or Mass in B Minor, all guns blazing. Don't tell me "well, it's the space between the notes…

I would maybe look at this a bit differently.

Where are the great classical artists in even the rest of Europe? The great classical composers of the 18th century were all German and all made their careers in Vienna, Austria in the 1700s. This was where you wanted to be. Its like the musical equivalent of silicon valley in the 2000s. Vienna was among the wealthiest cities in the world. Habsburg nobility had an unusual fascination with funding arts and culture. Spurs competition to push the art to its limit, in hopes of attracting the wealthiest backers. Budding industrial revolution make the production of complicated musical instruments more viable.

Re: Two recently found works of J.S. Bach presented in Leipzig [video]

#128

Post by reactordev »

lukan wrote: post #90
stavros wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to say, I enjoyed "Nah Bach shits on Mozart" much more than I should have.

Is that because there is some more depth to the joke, that Mozart did this for real "when mozart was out touring europe getting drunk and shitting on women" - "shit on women"? So Bach metaphorically shits on Mozart for being the greater composer who was in it for the music and now gets more fame? Because I was rather appalled by that language, but maybe lack background context.

Mozart loved wild parties and had a feces obsession. He also was born 6 years after Bach died so no, Bach didn't shit on Mozart, only the Academics do. The only shits Bach cared for was getting paid and making good music. Mozart on the other hand was "paraded across europe" but as a child. By the time he was an adult, he had a job. By the time America decided it had had enough of the British, Mozart left for Vienna.

Re: Two recently found works of J.S. Bach presented in Leipzig [video]

#129

Post by leephillips »

spectralista wrote: post #96
PotatoPancakes wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bach's most approachable music might be his cello suites. But also, I think there are two camps of fans of "classical music" (by which I mean music in the styles: Baroque, Classical, Romantic, Impressionist, etc). There are those who listen to the music, and those who play it. For the most part, those who only listen to music often prefer Romantic and Impressionist styles. From the moody and dramatic to the gentle an…

I think Bach's lute music is the most approachable because it sounds the most modern like guitar music. Even though the baroque lute is an alien instrument visually to the average person today, the sound is closer to what people have grown up on. The whole question though is like what is the best David Bowie album to start with multiplied by 100. The catalog is just so immense, the sounds are just so varied that one…

She is amazing. Brings out the lines with such clarity.

Re: Two recently found works of J.S. Bach presented in Leipzig [video]

#130

Post by leephillips »

d-lisp wrote: post #105
prmph wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree; I find many of Bach’s compositions to be devoid of heart, just intellectual in some mathematical way. Now don’t get me wrong, I do enjoy many of his compositions for what they are. The thing about music and many other arts is that it is a fools errand to attempt to give them a total ordering; there are things to enjoy about wildly differing styles of music that I think people do a disservice to themselves…

What pieces do you know ? I mostly listen violin/lute partitas (I sometimes prefer them transcribed to classical guitars (I really enjoy Vidovic and Bream renditions)). I do really like the simplicity of such pieces, which I find to be very lyrical, of course in a far different manner than e.g. Vivaldi... The chaconne from the 2nd partita in D minor [BWV 1004] I find very powerful; very different from the Brandburg C…

That chaconne is one of my favorite pieces of all time. I heard it first on guitar, played by Segovia, and, probably because of that, still prefer it on guitar to the original violin. I even used to play it, pretty decently, I think.
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