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Linear algebra explains why some words are effectively untranslatable

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Re: Linear algebra explains why some words are effectively untranslatable

#121

Post by krackers »

yubblegum wrote: post #47

Interestingly enough for this morning's walk I was musing over the tension between the hypotheses that: 'LLMs can map between languages in the vector space' (thus languages are ~equivalent); and 'Language affects thoughts' (as in German is good for Philosophy and English for getting things done). If both these thoughts are true, then it would appear that languages have topological characteristics. We can (topological…

There is the platonic representation hypothesis, which speculates that as LLMs get larger and more multimodal, they all end up learning isomorphic representations of reality. Maybe for humans something like this is true as well, since ultimately language must be rich enough to capture and communicate reality.

Re: Linear algebra explains why some words are effectively untranslatable

#122

Post by znkr »

KolenCh wrote: post #50

Big claim but not much substance. They should try to really understand linear algebra first, and also linguistics a bit. Semantic domain (from linguistics) is a better way to describe it, where using sets (from math) might better convey what they want to say.

The whole article starts with the implicit assumption that all bases are orthonormal and then throws linear algebra out of the window completely.

Re: Linear algebra explains why some words are effectively untranslatable

#123

Post by crazygringo »

hansvm wrote: post #120
crazygringo wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't what you mean by a "true" synonym, but that is false. There are historical reasons there is a lot of word-doubling. The fact that synonyms might carry additional subtle connotations -- i.e. maybe you find "autumn" more poetic than "fall" -- doesn't change the fact that they are synonyms.

One of the main points of language is to evoke ideas in others' minds. "Autumn" and "fall" will normally evoke different ideas in US english (the former bringing about views of the cozier parts of the season, and the latter being more sterile, used to refer to a particular region of time). Maybe we disagree about what a "true synonym" is, but that distinction seems important to me.

Then by your logic no words can be true synonyms, because sounds themselves inherently evoke meaning [1]. And then the concept itself becomes pointless.

So I'd prefer to stick to concepts that actually do mean something, where "synonym" is two words that have the same primary functional meaning. Splitting hairs over whether autumn is "cozier" than fall does not change the fact that they are synonyms by any reasonable definition, or change the point that English has a hugely larger number of synonyms than any other language, for certain historical reasons.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bouba/kiki_effect

Re: Linear algebra explains why some words are effectively untranslatable

#124

Post by bloppe »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #91
bloppe wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some giant portion of English vocabulary actually are compound words. English loves using compound words but only if the roots are sourced from Latin or Greek : words like electrocardiogram ("electronic heart picture", sourced from Greek), agriculture ("field nurturing", from Latin), and telecommunication ("far sharing", a hybrid of Latin and Greek roots). Probably the overwhelming majority of the words in an English…

> English loves using compound words but only if the roots are sourced from Latin or Greek: words like electrocardiogram This is false; English loves using compound words. One example of such a compound word is "fire department", which has identical syntax to the German compound "Feuerwehr". Whether a compound word is spelled with or without internal spaces is not a fact about the language, it's a fact about the spel…

You'd call it a noun phrase, not a compound word. Definitely splitting hairs at this point, but hey that's what gets me off.

Re: Linear algebra explains why some words are effectively untranslatable

#125

Post by nyeah »

tptacek wrote: post #106
nyeah wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what does that illustrate?

Like, what a matrix looks like? Seems fine.

But, as a few people have pointed out, that particular matrix product is undefined. It's broken. That's really not quite what a matrix-vector product looks like.

The author says he has PhD. That's fine. I suffer from the same condition. But it feels off to hear about expertise and see an invalid first example.

Re: Linear algebra explains why some words are effectively untranslatable

#126

Post by mmmBacon »

davidgay wrote: post #90
plumeria wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any overlap between these unusual and rare words and GRE vocabulary?

The GRE vocabulary is actually based on French, Latin and Greek, not English. Much less rare and unusual once you realise that.

This is 100% incorrect as you’ve written it. The GRE is based on English vocabulary. It’s true that many words have Greek, Latin, or French roots but they are most certainly not Latin, Greek, or French.

Re: Linear algebra explains why some words are effectively untranslatable

#127

Post by mmmBacon »

ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #116
ErroneousBosh wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is now clear that there exist English words that don't correspond to a single word in the other language. But that's true of any language. Not only that, but English uses loanwords heavily which are often Anglicisations of words from other languages, which may not in themselves be just one word. "Ho ho ho", the flag-waving Little Englander types say, "Gaelic is such a stupid language, they don't even have a word…

Does no-one else use the english word "telly" for a television?

Isn’t “telly” English slang for television? It’s a regional slang that’s not universally used.

Re: Linear algebra explains why some words are effectively untranslatable

#128

Post by nyeah »

mmmBacon wrote: post #126
davidgay wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The GRE vocabulary is actually based on French, Latin and Greek, not English. Much less rare and unusual once you realise that.

This is 100% incorrect as you’ve written it. The GRE is based on English vocabulary. It’s true that many words have Greek, Latin, or French roots but they are most certainly not Latin, Greek, or French.

He doesn't say the GRE is based on Latin etc. He says the GRE vocabulary is based on Latin etc. To me that sounds similar to what you're saying.

Re: Linear algebra explains why some words are effectively untranslatable

#129

Post by ndsipa_pomu »

mmmBacon wrote: post #127
ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does no-one else use the english word "telly" for a television?

Isn’t “telly” English slang for television? It’s a regional slang that’s not universally used.

Slang? Possibly, but you can go anywhere in the UK and ask "What's on the telly tonight?" and people know what you're asking. I'd claim that it's informal rather than regional slang. There's even an L.A. company using it as their name: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telly_(company)

(I was addressing the parent's claim of 'But English also has no word for "television"')

Re: Linear algebra explains why some words are effectively untranslatable

#130

Post by mmmBacon »

ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #129
mmmBacon wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t “telly” English slang for television? It’s a regional slang that’s not universally used.

Slang? Possibly, but you can go anywhere in the UK and ask "What's on the telly tonight?" and people know what you're asking. I'd claim that it's informal rather than regional slang. There's even an L.A. company using it as their name: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telly_(company) (I was addressing the parent's claim of 'But English also has no word for "television"')

Yep you provide a great example of a word used as regional slang for the word television.

The word telly is not in common usage in the United States. It’s understood here to be UK slang for TV.

Your example is largely irrelevant; I wouldn’t call a spyware TV founded by Russian born dude a cultural touchstone.

Regardless of origin the word television is an English word now. The ability to adopt loan words from other languages is one of the many reasons English usage is so widespread.

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