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Kubernetes Ingress Nginx is retiring

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Re: Kubernetes Ingress Nginx is retiring

#121

Post by wvh »

3ln00b wrote: post #19

How do you people even keep up with this? I'm going back to cybersecurity after trying DevOps for a year, it's not for me. I miss my sysadmin days, things were simple back then and worked. Maybe I'm just getting old and my cognitive abilities are declining. It seems to me that the current tech scene doesn't reward simple.

I feel the same, especially the feeling old and jaded part, but I disagree that things were easier. Systems such as Kubernetes are not worse than trying to administer a zillion servers and networks by hand in the late '90s (or with tools like Puppet and Ansible a bit later), let alone HA shenanigans; neither are they a magical solution, more of a side-step and necessary evolution of scale.

There is a wild-grow of 80% solved problems in the Kubernetes space though, and especially the DevOps landscape seems to be plagued by half-solutions at the moment.

I think part of the complexity arises from everything being interconnected services instead of simple stand-alone software binaries. Things talking with other things, not necessarily from the same maker or ecosystem.

I don't understand decisions such as these though, retiring de facto standards such as Ingress NGINX. I can't name a single of our customers at $WORKPLACE that's running something else.

Re: Kubernetes Ingress Nginx is retiring

#122

Post by arccy »

imcritic wrote: post #14
seabombs wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been using Envoy Gateway in my homelab and have found it to be good for my modest needs (single node k3s cluster running on an old PC). I needed to configure the underlying EnvoyProxy so that it would listen on specific IPs provided by MetalLB, and their docs were good enough to find my way through that. https://gateway.envoyproxy.io/

But envoy configs are unreadable abominations, why would you choose it? How did you even learn how to configure it? It's documentation is so confusing.

it's pretty straightforward if you think about it in terms of the networking layers involved in processing a request though

Re: Kubernetes Ingress Nginx is retiring

#123

Post by mlrtime »

steve1977 wrote: post #88
dangus wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This just seems like sensationalist nonsense spoken by someone who hasn’t done a second of Ops work. Kubernetes is incredibly reliable compared to traditional infrastructure. It eliminates a ton of the configuration management dependency hellscape and inconsistent application deployments that traditional infrastructure entails. Immutable containers provide a major benefit to development velocity and deployment reliab…

The problem is that some Kubernetes features would have a positive impact on development velocity in theory, however in my experience (25 years of ops and devops), the cost of keeping up often eats up those benefits and often results in a net-negative. This is not always a problem of Kubernetes itself though, but of teams always chasing after the latest shiny thing.

Also a old man from VMS/Sparc days, I'm still doing "devops" and just deployed a realtime streaming webapp tool for our team in a few days to k8s pods. It was incredibly easy and I get so much for free

Automatically created for me: - Ingress, TLS, Domain name, Deployment strategy, Dev/Prod environments through helm, Single repo configuration for source code, reproducible dev/prod build+run (Docker)...

If a company sets this up correctly developers can create tooling incredibly fast without any tickets from a core infra team. It's all stable and very performant.

I'd never go back to the old way of deploying applications after seeing it work well.

Re: Kubernetes Ingress Nginx is retiring

#124

Post by [deleted] »

steeleduncan wrote: post #116
j0057 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Docker is not for production. Nomad at scale in practice needs a lot of load-bearing Bash scripts around it: for managing certs, for external DNS, you need Consul for service discovery, Vault for secrets. At that point, is Nomad still simple? If you're going to take on all of the essential complexity of deploying software at scale, just do it right and use Kubernetes. Source: running thousands of containers in produc…

> you need Consul for service discovery Kubernetes uses etcd for service discovery. It isn't that Nomad does things differently or less simply, it is just that they are more explicit about it. The real difference is that Kubernetes has a wide array of cloud hosts that hide the complexity from users, whereas Nomad can realistically be self hosted

[deleted]

Re: Kubernetes Ingress Nginx is retiring

#125

Post by mlrtime »

mrweasel wrote: post #74
makeitdouble wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> things were simple back then If you were working in the orgs targeted by k8s, I think it was generally more of a mess. Think about managing a park of 100~200 servers with home made bash scripts and crappy monitoring tools and a modicum of dashboards. Now, k8s has engulfed a lot more than the primary target, but smaller shops go for it because they'r also hoping to hit it big someday I guess. Otherwise, there will b…

You can manage and reason about ~2000+ servers without Kubernetes, even with a relatively small team, say about 100 - 150, depending on what kind of business you're in. I'd recommend either Puppet, Ansible (with AWX) and/or Ubuntu Landscape (assuming that your in the Ubuntu ecosystem). Kubernetes is for rather special case environments. I am coming around to the idea of using Kubernetes more, but I still think that i…

>for their operating system of choice...

Have you been in a company with ~2000+ servers where devs install their apps on these OSs and building packages that refuse to upgrade to the latest OS? I mean even with LTS a 20 year old company may still have 3-4 LTS OSs because that last 5% refuse to or cannot upgrade their application to work with the new OS. Sure you could VM the entire thing, but Docker + K8s removes that completely.

Re: Kubernetes Ingress Nginx is retiring

#126

Post by mlrtime »

immibis wrote: post #102
jitl wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

imo if you are on a cloud like aws and using a config management system for mutable infra like puppet you are taking unnecessary complexity and living in the dark ages > Generally speaking I think people need to be more comfortable with build packages for their operating system of choice and install applications that way. The it's mostly configuration that needs why, it’s 2025, docker / container makes life so easy

because programmers should be able to use computers

No, they should be able to take business requirements and create performant reliable applications.

They should understand CS/CE core fundamentals but they don't need to know how to admin.

Re: Kubernetes Ingress Nginx is retiring

#127

Post by mlrtime »

Grimburger wrote: post #93
mrweasel wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can manage and reason about ~2000+ servers without Kubernetes, even with a relatively small team, say about 100 - 150, depending on what kind of business you're in. I'd recommend either Puppet, Ansible (with AWX) and/or Ubuntu Landscape (assuming that your in the Ubuntu ecosystem). Kubernetes is for rather special case environments. I am coming around to the idea of using Kubernetes more, but I still think that i…

> You can manage and reason about ~2000+ servers without Kubernetes, even with a relatively small team, say about 100 - 150 Oh wow, so uh... I'm managing around 1000 nodes over 6 clusters, alone. There's others able to handle things when I'm not around or on leave and meticulously updated docs for them to do so but in general am the only one touching our infra. I also do dev work the other half of the week for our co…

Managed k8s (GKE/EKS) or self admin k8s? If the former, no problem. If you're building your own clusters on raw cloud or bare metal compute I'm skeptical if doing it solo. Kudos either way!

Re: Kubernetes Ingress Nginx is retiring

#128

Post by [deleted] »

dangus wrote: post #53
makeitdouble wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> things were simple back then If you were working in the orgs targeted by k8s, I think it was generally more of a mess. Think about managing a park of 100~200 servers with home made bash scripts and crappy monitoring tools and a modicum of dashboards. Now, k8s has engulfed a lot more than the primary target, but smaller shops go for it because they'r also hoping to hit it big someday I guess. Otherwise, there will b…

Even after the bash script era, I don’t think the configuration management landscape gets enough discredit for how bad it is. I never felt like it stopped feeling hacked together and unreliable. E.g., Chef Software, especially after its acquisition, is just a dumpster fire of weird anti-patterns and seemingly incomplete, buggy implementations. Ansible is more of the gold standard but I actually moved to Chef to gain…

[deleted]

Re: Kubernetes Ingress Nginx is retiring

#129

Post by [deleted] »

jabl wrote: post #91
dangus wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even after the bash script era, I don’t think the configuration management landscape gets enough discredit for how bad it is. I never felt like it stopped feeling hacked together and unreliable. E.g., Chef Software, especially after its acquisition, is just a dumpster fire of weird anti-patterns and seemingly incomplete, buggy implementations. Ansible is more of the gold standard but I actually moved to Chef to gain…

I have to say I hate ansible too (and puppet and cfengine that I have previously used). But it's unclear to me how containers fix the problems ansible solves. So instead of an ansible playbook/role that installs, say, nginx from the distro package repository, and then pushes some specific configuration, I have a dockerfile that does the same thing? Woohoo?

[deleted]

Re: Kubernetes Ingress Nginx is retiring

#130

Post by [deleted] »

wg0 wrote: post #69

Kubernetes is never maturing. It keeps moving. An installation just a year ago would have things that would require significant planning to upgrade. What is missing is an open source orchestrator that has a feature freeze and isn't Nomad or docker swarm.

[deleted]
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