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Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

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Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#121
post #48
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does this apply to a digital version of an official government ID? The government already has all this data.

I didn't say anything about the data the government has or doesn't have. I'm talking about perfect enforcement. Try faking a digital ID.

This is based off of a biometric passport, which have been digitally signed for a very long time now.

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Reading the passport and its chip implies some terminal authentication capabilities coming from Apple devices They’ve had some form of this for ages with Apple Pay

Sorry I was meaning to say "passport terminal" capabilities which would require a cert to be issued by a country whose passport chips you want to read. Well maybe they had this for a while but AFAIK you could not read passport details with an apple device before

From that article it looks like all you need to establish a secure connection with the passport is some data that is printed in plaintext on the photo page.

It seems (again, if I'm reading correctly) that you only really need a private key in order to issue a passport.

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry I was meaning to say "passport terminal" capabilities which would require a cert to be issued by a country whose passport chips you want to read. Well maybe they had this for a while but AFAIK you could not read passport details with an apple device before

From that article it looks like all you need to establish a secure connection with the passport is some data that is printed in plaintext on the photo page. It seems (again, if I'm reading correctly) that you only really need a private key in order to issue a passport.

Yes, that's correct. There have been apps on iOS and Android that can read your passport via NFC for ages. As you noted, all you need is the plaintext information printed on the photo page to generate the Basic Access Control key, which will let you connect to the passport's NFC chip.

Issuing a passport is a different issue entirely, since you need a country's document signing key.

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#124

There was a post from trailofbits blog recently about how passport crypto works. Kind of related here. I wonder if this is some zero knowledge proofs here or what? Reading the passport and its chip implies some terminal authentication capabilities coming from Apple devices. Passport would not allow reading sensitive data from the chip unless the terminal is valid. Another question is if Apple is allowed to read your…

I still find it bonkers reading passport doesn't validate it against it some centralised database. Like, $1 in your bank account and a credit card is more advanced than a passport.

Passports are inherently decentralized, which is needed because not all countries cooperate with each other - or have the same budget for technology/security. It's really way something at global scale could work.

(There are national-level databases, but presumably not every country has access to every other country's database.)

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#125
post #112
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only if you're being arrested. If you're at a traffic stop or tons of other scenarios would never need to.

It's normal for police at a traffic stop to take your license back to their car while they write a ticket or whatever. Until laws change, having your only license on your phone means handing your phone to an officer until they are satisfied they no longer need it.

States that have implemented mobile drivers licenses are starting to issue handheld readers to police officers, precisely so what you describe doesn't happen.

The people building this know nobody wants to hand their phone over to the police.

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#126
post #43
post #39

I'm really wary of these initiatives, because perfect law enforcement is how society ossifies. Imagine if we could prosecute all homosexual tendencies when they happened, or all interracial relationships, or any other antiquated law. Society would never progress. What happens if the government can now perfectly enforce that people under 18 can't do X or Y?

How does this apply to a digital version of an official government ID? The government already has all this data.

Governments aren’t just rolling out Digital IDs. They’re rolling out the platform to enable them to require that you authenticate with a range of apps and websites, ostensibly to keep children safe, with the real purpose being to link your unique identifier to all your online activity. They can then easily build an overall picture of who you are from that ID. Potentially, all this data can be fed into a pre-crime AI.

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#127
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does this apply to a digital version of an official government ID? The government already has all this data.

Governments aren’t just rolling out Digital IDs. They’re rolling out the platform to enable them to require that you authenticate with a range of apps and websites, ostensibly to keep children safe, with the real purpose being to link your unique identifier to all your online activity. They can then easily build an overall picture of who you are from that ID. Potentially, all this data can be fed into a pre-crime AI.

They’re already doing that without digital IDs. I don’t see how this affects the other.

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#128
post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still find it bonkers reading passport doesn't validate it against it some centralised database. Like, $1 in your bank account and a credit card is more advanced than a passport.

Passports are inherently decentralized, which is needed because not all countries cooperate with each other - or have the same budget for technology/security. It's really way something at global scale could work. (There are national-level databases, but presumably not every country has access to every other country's database.)

I struggle to imagine international airport without a credit card reader. Maybe some borders in some countries could've struggled before cheap ubiquitous internet, but not anymore. And even then it's their problem.

Countries don't need access to database. They need to validate public key / hashsum is valid (or something along those lines).

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#129
post #4

I’m still waiting for the day where 100% of state drivers licenses are supported in wallet and anyone requesting ID are required to accept them. Quite literally the only reason I have a wallet these days is for the drivers license.

I leave my wallet in my car, because the only reason I need it is for my driver license.

My bank, however, has one of those authenticator doohickies that I need to use when I make big transactions online. Pop my debit card in, enter the pin, and then do a little dance with codes back and forth on their internet banking to authenticate the transaction.

So I am in this annoying situation where my wallet is never where I needed it: either I'm making a payment and I need to go to my car to get my card, or I need my license and my wallet is on my desk where I forgot it last time.

Google Pay and digital wallets have literally freed up one of my jean pockets permanently.

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#130
post #39

I'm really wary of these initiatives, because perfect law enforcement is how society ossifies. Imagine if we could prosecute all homosexual tendencies when they happened, or all interracial relationships, or any other antiquated law. Society would never progress. What happens if the government can now perfectly enforce that people under 18 can't do X or Y?

Also, if it's easy to check your ID, there will be more and more checks of your ID. And that's not great...
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