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US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

thedailybeast.com

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Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#121

Post by hibikir »

koolba wrote: post #66
tdb7893 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a Democrat (well, nominally at least) but they clearly need some people from both parties to fund the government. Democrats won't vote for a "clean" bill and Republicans won't negotiate. The crazy thing is people predicted the shutdown in the spring and the government still drove the boat straight into this iceberg.

> The crazy thing is people predicted the shutdown in the spring and the government still drove the boat straight into this iceberg. The Democrats also had ample opportunity to extend the bonus Covid era subsidies when they controlled all branches of government. They could have included in the overall reconciliation funding bill that bypassed the filibuster. Not doing so was deliberate.

There were a variety of things they didn't predict, including the fact that the executive branch would believe that they have the right to not spend the money congress appropriated to do things. This is the real crux of the shutdown: Negotiations where you demand some spending in exchange for votes are unlikely when the other side can refuse to spend the money, so ultimately there is no credible basis on which to even begin negotiating.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#122

Post by pwthornton »

Freedom2 wrote: post #107
inglor_cz wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Now, should more productive parts of the country be subsidizing air travel in less productive parts of the country? That's for you to decide." I would say "no", personally. In the absence of a subsidy, the network of the rural airports would likely become sparser, but the surviving ones would have better economy and, as a result, infrastructure too.

Isn't that arguably want rural communities want, however? I believe they're the strongest advocates of small government, less subsidies and pulling oneself (ie, their community) up by their bootstraps, regardless of what reality is.

I think the issue with many rural Americans is that they don't realize they are the most subsidized people in this country.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#123

Post by actionfromafar »

mathgeek wrote: post #111
slg wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't deny that and maybe would even agree with that as an abstract theory, but I just can't stomach the amount of misery and death that would come along with this to ever use a word like "hope" to describe that outcome.

I don’t know if it’s reasonable or not to wish that, as an analogy, the German people had started a true civil war with the Nazis when they seized power. I can see how folks would wonder though.

Germany was not the hub of the world back then. Very different situations.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#124

Post by bediger4000 »

arzig wrote: post #75
lesuorac wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

So you’re saying the solution since Republicans control congress they should do away with the filibuster, pass a check funding bill and then continue governing under bare majorities with no filibuster? I don’t particularly like that outcome and I think the public understands that democrats have at least some leverage or they wouldn’t be acting in this way.

That's it, you've got it. Majority vote, take responsibility for both benefits and problems. Do away with the fig leaf of bipartisan consent.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#125

Post by piva00 »

mothballed wrote: post #4

It's wild ATC isn't funded by use fees instead of being appropriated by congress. Seems like a good opportunity to provide some mechanism so the government has to shit or get off the pot, because if the government won't do the job the airlines would surely be glad to pay for the service themselves.

It's wild that from the many developed countries in the world this issue only happens in the USA, the richest one. Fucking bonkers actually...

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#126

Post by barbazoo »

ibejoeb wrote: post #89
jacquesm wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have your parties muddled up. The democrats are not in power.

It is true that democrats are not in the majority. However, it is factually true that 7 more democrats must vote for S.3019 (for a total of 60 votes) for the government to re-open. Ref: https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/119-2025/s609

Has the leading party made any efforts to convince any 7 of the other party? Were there reasonable concessions? If you don’t have the majority you have to negotiate, otherwise dissolve government and let the people vote again.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#127

Post by mgh95 »

_blk wrote: post #95
lesuorac wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

For good reason. That's what being in charge means. Biden had to take the blame while he obviously wasn't capable of being in charge. But it does always seem to be exploited beyond reason by the opposition. I'm very curious on what do non-diehards think on Dems blocking the clean bill and on keeping funds flowing for themselves to stay in session. Please don't start a flame on this. If you can't stand trump, make it…

[flagged]

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#128

Post by pessimizer »

If the Democrats are smart, they'll keep the shutdown going until Trump folds, keep it going until the midterms if they have to. It's the first thing they're doing that people like, they blame Trump for all the misery.

He's jumping in front of the bullet by trying to stop SNAP under a goofy theory that Democrats actually care if people go hungry. Many Republicans have this strange but deeply-held crazy belief that Democrats are motivated by ideology rather than the same money that they themselves are motivated by, so they always think threatening to cut the baby in half will work.

And he's busy building a ballroom. People are really loving flights getting cancelled and more expensive, hard to blame that on immigrant fent terrorist antifa; and if there's anything that middle-class people hate, it's minor inconvenience.

Dems don't have to say anything (in fact it's better if they don't say anything) or do anything. Just watch the poll numbers go up and the donations from health insurers go up. All rational people agree that Obamacare sucks. But the Republicans are fighting to make it worse.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#129

Post by actionfromafar »

forgotoldacc wrote: post #96
fzeroracer wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, there's one critical flaw which is that Trump is also fucking up with the military. A lot of military members are going unpaid, and many more are going unpaid and their family isn't receiving snap benefits. An authoritarian trying to seize power without the backing of the military is bound to lead to failure, and even though money is being funneled into ICE enmasse they're an untrained legion of goons with litt…

People who support the guy aren't rational. He could personally take their every cent, say they're lucky that's all he did, and he wouldn't lose a single supporter. If the military went unpaid for half a year, all his supporters in the military would shift the blame to someone else.

But it’s totally not a cult, no. Just a party, taking care of you. You love the party. The party loves you.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#130

Post by barbazoo »

OsrsNeedsf2P wrote: post #63
koolba wrote: post #15

Pull all air traffic controllers from private airports and shutdown all routes for private jets, then this government shutdown will be done by tomorrow morning.

[flagged]

FAA could restrict who flies in and out of airports, why not target private jets? It’s like closing traffic for cars but letting busses in. Much better unit economics in terms of passengers serviced.
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