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Valdi – A cross-platform UI framework that delivers native performance

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Re: Valdi – A cross-platform UI framework that delivers native performance

#121

Post by jeremyjh »

austin-cheney wrote: post #99
simianwords wrote: post #73

I often wonder how the economics are justified in making in house frameworks. What is it about Snapchat that requires a new framework but not other apps?

As opposed to what? As opposed to not using a framework or using some other framework? Using frameworks is expensive by orders of magnitude. It’s additional code which greatly increases tech debt and slows the execution time of the given product pretty significantly. Think about it like this: a business with high confidence developers can ship a new SPA in a tenth of the time just using vanilla JavaScript that fully…

So developing a project with a framework takes 100x longer than using "vanilla javascript"? That is not my experience.

Re: Valdi – A cross-platform UI framework that delivers native performance

#122

Post by hjort-e »

adastra22 wrote: post #34
DecoPerson wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did this and never looked back. It’s called a “WebView app” and you can get a really good experience on all platforms using them. Just: - don’t make any crazy decisions on your fundamental UI components, like breadcrumbs, select dropdowns, etc - add a few platform-specific specialisations to those same components, to make them feel a bit more familiar, such as button styling, or using a self-simplifying back-stack…

I have never once experienced a WebView app that I would say had “a really good experience.”

Do you use iOS by any chance? On android I've very noticed performance problems. Even in apps like Discord and Instagram. But Google maps and Duolingo are pretty bad at times for example. So it's not webviews that are the common denominator here

Re: Valdi – A cross-platform UI framework that delivers native performance

#123

Post by hjort-e »

tiborsaas wrote: post #109
DecoPerson wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did this and never looked back. It’s called a “WebView app” and you can get a really good experience on all platforms using them. Just: - don’t make any crazy decisions on your fundamental UI components, like breadcrumbs, select dropdowns, etc - add a few platform-specific specialisations to those same components, to make them feel a bit more familiar, such as button styling, or using a self-simplifying back-stack…

Isn't there a high chance your app is going to be rejected from app stores because you use a web view? You can change your whole app completely upon approval. Or you ship your HTML/JS and not just embed a URL?

It's mostly shipped with the web assets. But yes that would make it very difficult to get approved by Apple. Not by Google though

Re: Valdi – A cross-platform UI framework that delivers native performance

#124

Post by hjort-e »

scosman wrote: post #81
bearjaws wrote: post #23

Working at a company that uses react-native I wish nothing more than for the end of app stores and differing platform languages. We're heavily considering just having a website next year with a mobile app using webview, and then native code for the native notifications, GPS and healthkit / health connect. I feel like AI is changing the equation, its nearly better to write your business UI 3 times one for each platfor…

I try this every decade. Love the first few months for speed. Then I end up paying the price later when I want to integrate "new OS feature X" or make a system gesture/style/animation feel native. Lack of swipe for back on iOS is usually the easiest way to tell I'm looking at a web view. But it's been about a decade so I'm due...

Lack of swipe back actually isn't an indicator. Apple doesn't even follow that pattern everywhere

Re: Valdi – A cross-platform UI framework that delivers native performance

#125

Post by gcanyon »

DecoPerson wrote: post #26
bearjaws wrote: post #23

Working at a company that uses react-native I wish nothing more than for the end of app stores and differing platform languages. We're heavily considering just having a website next year with a mobile app using webview, and then native code for the native notifications, GPS and healthkit / health connect. I feel like AI is changing the equation, its nearly better to write your business UI 3 times one for each platfor…

I did this and never looked back. It’s called a “WebView app” and you can get a really good experience on all platforms using them. Just: - don’t make any crazy decisions on your fundamental UI components, like breadcrumbs, select dropdowns, etc - add a few platform-specific specialisations to those same components, to make them feel a bit more familiar, such as button styling, or using a self-simplifying back-stack…

Gathering all the metaphors (I know) here for reference:

   - "All toupées look fake. I've never seen one that I couldn't tell was fake." [1]
   - All CGI in movies looks fake. It jumps out at me every time I see it."
   - All WebView apps suck. Every one I've seen has a bad obviously-web-derived UI.
re: that last one though -- I'd at least acknowledge that WebView apps are roughly at the end of the early-2000's era of CGI: not exactly "The Rock in The Scorpion King" bad, but generally not at the level of Avatar or Les Misérables.

1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45250878

Re: Valdi – A cross-platform UI framework that delivers native performance

#126

Post by pzo »

Looks in concept very similar to React Native. So now we have React Native, Lynx.js (ByteDance/Tiktok) and Valdi all based on React. I think competition is good for devs. But not sure if any of those will create ecosystem and community big enough and fast enough to React Native.

React Native grew a lot this year and a lot of things got or will be improved and copied from Lynx or Valid:

- 3 modes of compilation (AOT, JIT) from Valdi will be in static hermes (RN) in coming months.

- native binding generation -> RN already have such official generator and also nitro/nitrogen, they also working on Node-API

- executing animation and JS code in different thread (Lynx.js) -> worklet library in RN from swmansion

- tailwindcss support (Lynx) -> uniwind in RN land.

I think Lynx.js maybe have better shot at React Native since they want to support other frameworks instead of only React.

Re: Valdi – A cross-platform UI framework that delivers native performance

#127

Post by hjort-e »

yetanotherjosh wrote: post #90
DeathArrow wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then why bother making an app? The user can access the web app using the browser.

So you can get native behaviors when it’s critical. Like share sheets, push and many other critical features that only apps get even if the bulk of the experience can be done in a webview. This is because mobile OS platforms choose not to make these available to web apps, because app store profits are better for them than an open ecosystem where sites can do the same things as apps.

Both the things you mention have been possible on web and widely supported for a while.

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Web_Share_A...

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Push_API

And not having to wait a week between bug fixes being deployed is a major selling point that native just can't compete with.

Re: Valdi – A cross-platform UI framework that delivers native performance

#128

Post by austin-cheney »

jeremyjh wrote: post #121
austin-cheney wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As opposed to what? As opposed to not using a framework or using some other framework? Using frameworks is expensive by orders of magnitude. It’s additional code which greatly increases tech debt and slows the execution time of the given product pretty significantly. Think about it like this: a business with high confidence developers can ship a new SPA in a tenth of the time just using vanilla JavaScript that fully…

So developing a project with a framework takes 100x longer than using "vanilla javascript"? That is not my experience.

Not only does it take dramatically longer it also requires dramatically more people, which perfectly aligns with the Brooks’s Law.

Re: Valdi – A cross-platform UI framework that delivers native performance

#130

Post by mexicocitinluez »

logicprog wrote: post #68
bearjaws wrote: post #23

Working at a company that uses react-native I wish nothing more than for the end of app stores and differing platform languages. We're heavily considering just having a website next year with a mobile app using webview, and then native code for the native notifications, GPS and healthkit / health connect. I feel like AI is changing the equation, its nearly better to write your business UI 3 times one for each platfor…

CapacitorJS makes for a REALLY awesome app dev experience compared with React Native. It's basically just a really well integrated system for building exactly what you describe. The company I work at made the switch from an RN app to a CJS one and it was might and day in so many ways, performance included!

How is this different than Expo?
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