Wikipedia row erupts as Jimmy Wales intervenes on 'Gaza genocide' page • Hacker News Board

Re: Wikipedia row erupts as Jimmy Wales intervenes on 'Gaza genocide' page

#121

Post by DiogenesKynikos » Wed, Nov 05, 2025, 12:12 PM UTC

spwa4 wrote: post #120

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really need someone to explain to you why the systematic destruction of all of Gaza, murder of tens of thousands of civilians, and intentional blockade of food, water and electricity by Israel, a country with overwhelming military superiority over the Palestinians, is viewed as a genocide, while the Hamas raid on Israel on October 7th, 2023 isn't? There are some people - primarily Israeli propagandists trying to…

You really need someone to explain to you why "if your group is 'weak' you get to commit genocide without punishment" is an incredibly, incredibly bad principle? And no, the UN has called hamas' actions genocide, as I pointed out, are mostly the same people as for the "Gaza genocide".

If your group is weak, it's impossible for you to commit genocide. The idea that Hamas would ever be able to commit genocide against the Israelis is absurd. The reason why Israel is able to commit genocide against the Palestinians is because it has overwhelming military dominance.

Israel can kill Palestinians at will with almost no resistance. It can cut off food, water and electricity. It can bomb every hospital in Gaza. It can bomb almost every apartment building. It can destroy every water treatment plant. Etc. Etc. The most Hamas can do is launch a raid a few kilometers into Israel for a few hours, and that's only if the Israeli military isn't paying attention.

There is only one thing holding Israel back: fear of international pressure, in the form of sanctions, boycotts, etc.

Re: Wikipedia row erupts as Jimmy Wales intervenes on 'Gaza genocide' page

#122

Post by bArray » Wed, Nov 05, 2025, 7:08 PM UTC

mmooss wrote: post #89

bArray wrote: post #60

I mostly agree with Jimmy's statement [1] which is far more neutral than this article. I have concerns, though. It is difficult to find good sources without a large political bent. If we look at the following article "Casualties of the Gaza war" [2]. If you read link (108) you see a Guardian article "Revealed: Israeli military’s own data indicates civilian death rate of 83% in Gaza war" [3], which says: > Fighters na…

Often when people talk about bias, they assume it must be bias against their interests. They don't realize that, if there is room for bias, it's just as easily bias in their favor. The article could overstate either side - or both at different times. > When we look back at any conflict in history, we see the inflated deaths of civilians, the deflated number of military persons killed - it's propaganda. That's false.…

> Often when people talk about bias, they assume it must be bias against their interests. They don't realize that, if there is room for bias, it's just as easily bias in their favor. The article could overstate either side - or both at different times.

I think that my comment left room for this. But I felt it important to offer an opposition to what is the "leading narrative" in the West.

> That's false. In each event, one side tends to inflate claims like civilian deaths and the other tends to minimize them.

I should have been clearer that one side would make such claims, and the opposing side would also make such claims to their benefit. Propaganda has, and always will be, a significant part of war. It reminds me of the 2020-2021 China-India mountain battles [1] where both sides minimised their losses and claimed victory with large losses on the other side.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020%E2%80%932021_China%E2%80%...

Re: Wikipedia row erupts as Jimmy Wales intervenes on 'Gaza genocide' page

#123

Post by spwa4 » Wed, Nov 05, 2025, 10:16 PM UTC

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #121

spwa4 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really need someone to explain to you why "if your group is 'weak' you get to commit genocide without punishment" is an incredibly, incredibly bad principle? And no, the UN has called hamas' actions genocide, as I pointed out, are mostly the same people as for the "Gaza genocide".

If your group is weak, it's impossible for you to commit genocide. The idea that Hamas would ever be able to commit genocide against the Israelis is absurd. The reason why Israel is able to commit genocide against the Palestinians is because it has overwhelming military dominance. Israel can kill Palestinians at will with almost no resistance. It can cut off food, water and electricity. It can bomb every hospital in…

This word, impossible, I don't think it means what you think it means.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_genocide_in_the...

Oh, one might even add: there was no need whatsoever to change the definition of genocide to come to that conclusion. There was no need to declare a paid mailing list "academic experts on genocide", just to get "academic experts on genocide" to say something is a genocide. No need for years of propaganda, change laws and definitions after the fact.

Who knew? Just emptying two automatic weapons in a kindergarten classroom, leaving no survivors, because hamas fighters thought they were Jews, that event, just that one incident, is genocide. Along with hundreds of other war crimes that also count. Even if two of those children (the black ones) weren't even Jewish. Raping, killing and torturing women because they're Jewish is genocide.

Is your claim seriously that cutting off electricity is worse, or justifies something like this? Because we all know why people think those victims aren't worth caring about ...

Re: Wikipedia row erupts as Jimmy Wales intervenes on 'Gaza genocide' page

#124

Post by DiogenesKynikos » Wed, Nov 05, 2025, 10:59 PM UTC

spwa4 wrote: post #123

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your group is weak, it's impossible for you to commit genocide. The idea that Hamas would ever be able to commit genocide against the Israelis is absurd. The reason why Israel is able to commit genocide against the Palestinians is because it has overwhelming military dominance. Israel can kill Palestinians at will with almost no resistance. It can cut off food, water and electricity. It can bomb every hospital in…

This word, impossible, I don't think it means what you think it means. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_genocide_in_the... Oh, one might even add: there was no need whatsoever to change the definition of genocide to come to that conclusion. There was no need to declare a paid mailing list "academic experts on genocide", just to get "academic experts on genocide" to say something is a genocide. No need for…

The IDF has killed more babies alone than the total number of Israelis killed on October 7th.

The conflict between Israel and the Palestinians has nothing to do with Judaism itself, and the Palestinians don't care that the Israelis are Jewish, so I don't know why you keep bringing Jews into this (except to somehow relate it to the Holocaust).