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Crunchyroll is destroying its subtitles

daiz.moe

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Re: Crunchyroll is destroying its subtitles

#121

Post by zdc1 »

thot_experiment wrote: post #51

Sort of unrelated, but has anyone else noticed that there are a lot of subtitling errors in netflix shows recently? Two I noticed yesterday: "natural world" -> "national world" "cede power" -> "seed power" I guess they're just machine transcribing it without oversight now?

It's only a matter of time before the incorrect translations become standard english, and the correct translations become "formal" or even "archaisms".

We're truly seeded our language to a bunch of crappy algorithms...

Re: Crunchyroll is destroying its subtitles

#122

Post by rs186 »

jahsome wrote: post #63

As someone who doesn't watch anime, this article reminds me of when a coworker sends a screenshot with zero context and says something like "is this supposed to be like this?" Maybe it's a spectrum thing, but I find it beyond lazy and insulting. In the article, there's zero explanation of what the actual issue is, at least in the first few paragraphs. It just seems to say the subtitles are bad with some examples and…

The article definitely could be improved. I kind of guessed what the author to say at the beginning, but it was not really clear until much later. Had the author shown a side-by-side comparison at the beginning, it would have helped.

Re: Crunchyroll is destroying its subtitles

#123

Post by GolDDranks »

wodenokoto wrote: post #79
jahsome wrote: post #63

As someone who doesn't watch anime, this article reminds me of when a coworker sends a screenshot with zero context and says something like "is this supposed to be like this?" Maybe it's a spectrum thing, but I find it beyond lazy and insulting. In the article, there's zero explanation of what the actual issue is, at least in the first few paragraphs. It just seems to say the subtitles are bad with some examples and…

My understanding is, people who only get subtitles from anime have very particular subtitle preferences. As someone who grew up where 90% of TV was subtitled I find the “bad” anime subtitles much better.

I also grew up where 90% of TV was subtitled (Finland, where, incidentally, the author of the article is from too), but I find the "good" anime subtitles better – for the simple reason that they make it easier to see which translation corresponds to which text.

Note that anime has generally more text on the screen that many western shows, so I think subtitling practices of some subtitle-heavy western countries, while informed and proven by time, don't necessarily represent optimal practices for anime.

But I think you are correct about the subtitle preferences of anime fans. The "general wisdom" of audiovisual translations is that great translations manage to convey the important point very succinctly, and a professional translator knows how to shave off the fluff to achieve subtitles that are quick to read and "fade in the background" in the sense that you don't even realize that you are reading them.

However, many anime fans actually LIKE so-called foreignizing translations ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestication_and_foreignizati... ). I think this plays into the fancier subtitle preferences too.

Re: Crunchyroll is destroying its subtitles

#124

Post by rs186 »

Daiz wrote: post #71
jahsome wrote: post #63

As someone who doesn't watch anime, this article reminds me of when a coworker sends a screenshot with zero context and says something like "is this supposed to be like this?" Maybe it's a spectrum thing, but I find it beyond lazy and insulting. In the article, there's zero explanation of what the actual issue is, at least in the first few paragraphs. It just seems to say the subtitles are bad with some examples and…

Well... the very first paragraph of the article does say with highlighting how "the presentation quality for translations of on-screen text has taken a total nosedive". And then it shows visual examples of the new bad quality and gives comparison screenshots demonstrating good quality shortly after.

A small suggestion: ask a friend of yours who don't regularly watch anime to read your article for 20 seconds, and see if they can explain what it is about.

I spent quite some hours on CR, yet it was maybe until 30 seconds later before I realized what the "nosedive" refers to exactly. In fact, I kept thinking "quality" refers to "translation quality" and I was puzzled I could not see obvious issues.

It doesn't need to be that. Anyone given side-by-side screenshots without additional contexts should immediately tell you what's happening, and I've read lots of blog posts like that.

More specifically, the article provides 4 bad screenshots at fitst. I actually went through 3 of them. I kind of guessed what you meant but wasn't sure. Then there is another gallery of good ones. Why? Just provide good vs bad at the top, explicitly explain what's the expectation, and if needed, provide more examples. That'll be 200% better than this.

Re: Crunchyroll is destroying its subtitles

#125

Post by ndsipa_pomu »

Zarathruster wrote: post #86
kacesensitive wrote: post #12

It's so hard finding dubbed anime WITH subtitles. Like actually ridiculously hard. My wife is deaf and I like dubbed so I can use my laptop while we chill but she literally needs subtitles so it's super annoying when a show either 1. Has no subtitles for dubbed. 2. Their subtitles are just the subbed version's subtitles which are drastically different from what the dubbed VAs are actually saying. 3. Has subtitles for…

> 2. Their subtitles are just the subbed version's subtitles which are drastically different from what the dubbed VAs are actually saying. I get that you might not like it, but it sure beats the option you didn't list: 4. Has auto-generated subtitles for the dub that fail in dramatic and distracting ways, especially for proper nouns or any kind of show-specific invented terminology

Whilst sometimes distracting, I prefer auto-generated subtitles to none at all

Re: Crunchyroll is destroying its subtitles

#126

Post by [deleted] »

kacesensitive wrote: post #12

It's so hard finding dubbed anime WITH subtitles. Like actually ridiculously hard. My wife is deaf and I like dubbed so I can use my laptop while we chill but she literally needs subtitles so it's super annoying when a show either 1. Has no subtitles for dubbed. 2. Their subtitles are just the subbed version's subtitles which are drastically different from what the dubbed VAs are actually saying. 3. Has subtitles for…

[deleted]

Re: Crunchyroll is destroying its subtitles

#127

Post by meowface »

Yizahi wrote: post #110
meowface wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It baffles me how this is a thing. Not just regarding anime but any non-English language show or film. I've never come across a dub that wasn't at least five times worse in every way.

After hearing it from multiple different people, I've discovered that apparently many people are watching video content in background. And I don't mean music or podcasts style content with no graphics, but actual TV shows, anime, movies etc. And apparently they do that while doing something else demanding attention, like work, gaming, reading(!) etc. I have never managed such a feat, but it seems it is popular nowada…

Very odd. I definitely do that with podcasts and miscellaneous YouTube videos (like the latest LegalEagle video or whatever) but the idea of doing it with a show/anime/movie is unthinkable to me.

Re: Crunchyroll is destroying its subtitles

#128

Post by meowface »

voidUpdate wrote: post #106
meowface wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It baffles me how this is a thing. Not just regarding anime but any non-English language show or film. I've never come across a dub that wasn't at least five times worse in every way.

I like watching anime, as opposed to reading anime, and I don't know Japanese. Every dub I've watched has been fine for me, I haven't noticed it being bad. Sure, if I knew Japanese well enough to keep up with the dialog, and watched both versions, I'd probably notice a difference, but for me, it comes down to whether I want to listen to an anime in English, or read an anime in English. I also sometimes want to do som…

But... people who only speak English and no other languages watch shows and films in other languages all the time. That's what the subtitles are for. I would guess 99% of anime watchers who listen in the original audio don't know any Japanese.

I'm sorry but it's so strange to me. To me it's like putting on your favorite song, but it's in Spanish so it's dubbed by a much worse singer who sings it in English.

I also don't understand why one would watch a film or show on one screen while playing a game or something on another screen. Either the film or show is so boring and trite that you need something else to distract you - in which case why ever watch it at all? - or you're missing out by not focusing on something good.

If it's a 4-hour podcast or a random infotainment YouTube video, sure, it makes sense to put that on while playing a game or programming or whatever. But an actual polished show? I don't get it.

Re: Crunchyroll is destroying its subtitles

#129

Post by forgotpwd16 »

lazystar wrote: post #94
amarant wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well the subtitles are ASS, alright, I'll give em that!

who in the world thought that a .ass file extension would be a good idea, sigh. https://fileformats.fandom.com/wiki/SubStation_Alpha

From submitted article:

>Yes, it really is called ASS. Its predecessor, SubStation Alpha, went by SSA, and since these formats were developed by enthusiast hobbyists, I believe they couldn’t resist the siren song of a little bit of cheeky naming.

Re: Crunchyroll is destroying its subtitles

#130

Post by voidUpdate »

meowface wrote: post #128
voidUpdate wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like watching anime, as opposed to reading anime, and I don't know Japanese. Every dub I've watched has been fine for me, I haven't noticed it being bad. Sure, if I knew Japanese well enough to keep up with the dialog, and watched both versions, I'd probably notice a difference, but for me, it comes down to whether I want to listen to an anime in English, or read an anime in English. I also sometimes want to do som…

But... people who only speak English and no other languages watch shows and films in other languages all the time. That's what the subtitles are for. I would guess 99% of anime watchers who listen in the original audio don't know any Japanese. I'm sorry but it's so strange to me. To me it's like putting on your favorite song, but it's in Spanish so it's dubbed by a much worse singer who sings it in English. I also do…

If something is my favourite song, I will listen it in the language where it is my favourite song. I generally don't have favourite songs in other languages.

I have ADHD. I struggle to concentrate on anything. I would rather have the ability to be distracted for a bit and still be able to follow the show, than have to rewind it constantly or force myself to concentrate on something (which my brain doesn't enjoy). I don't need a distraction from a boring show, I need something else to keep me engaged.

I'm not sure why you are putting infotainment youtube videos in their own category, I treat them just the same. If it has visuals that I want to see, I'll put it on my second monitor and watch it while I'm doing something else. Not while programming, because that requires its own focus, or a narrative game, but more a sandbox game like minecraft or factorio

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