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Why does Swiss cheese have holes?

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Re: Why does Swiss cheese have holes?

#121

Post by thomasmg »

slibhb wrote: post #92
Insanity wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question.. where? Most bread seems to be high in additives and promoted as a “healthy food”, like additional vitamines etc. And even when buying natural bread without these added “benefits”, it often has high levels of sodium (up to like 200mg per slice). Bread is one of the easiest, most plain things to make, yet finding high quality bread isn’t straightforward in the States. But I do really want to know whic…

Search Google maps for "bakery" and sort by rating. It's not hard to find a good bakery in any dense area in the US. I have to imagine people claiming otherwise are indulging in Yankee-bashing, a favorite European pastime.

What one considers a "good bread" or "good bakery" depends on the person. I'm from Switzerland. When I was in the United States (Bay Area, San Francisco), in 2000-2003, I did _not_ find what I consider a "good bread". I did find "bakery".

Re: Why does Swiss cheese have holes?

#122

Post by mattclarkdotnet »

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #40
chris_va wrote: post #24

> Properly formed eyes are a mark of quality. Except when I asked someone who makes cheese in Switzerland, they told me almost the opposite (and mostly that they export the junk cheese to the US and keep the good stuff). As an aside, what are the odds this article was written by AI? It has that feel (minus random bolding and bullet points).

I have heard that Denmark exports their best pigs and leaves the second best for home. Not sure why that should be any truer than what you heard regarding Switzerland and their strategy, but they seem to represent two differing strategies about how to best profit from strong points, it would be nice to figure if either is the dominant one. Perhaps we can ask Italy what they do with tomatoes and parmigiano.

In two minds as to your sarcasm level. Anyone who has eaten bacon in Denmark or Raclette in Switzerland or a fresh pasta sauce in Italy could testify that the best stays home

Re: Why does Swiss cheese have holes?

#124

Post by JumpCrisscross »

elzbardico wrote: post #120
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans are richer per capita than Europeans. Particularly when it comes to disposable purchasing power in a foreign country. A lot of European stereotypes about America are filtered through both tourist traps and cost constraints. (For a similar effect in respect of Europe, see the median Russian tourist summarizing Western Europe.)

Switzerland and Norway usually have a higher per capita gdp than the US. Most Western European countries are not so dramatically behind the US. But on the other hand, European countries have far less income inequality than the US, and less poverty. Then, not everything is about money. Culture matters a lot when it comes to food.

> Switzerland and Norway usually have a higher per capita gdp than the US

And strong currencies. You don’t get this bias in either, generally.

> on the other hand, European countries have far less income inequality than the US, and less poverty

Irrelevant. I’m not saying one is superior to the other. Just that the median European tourist probably isn’t experiencing any American city or town like the median American who lives there.

This is partly due to tourist effects. But it’s also due to cost. After GDP/capita differentials and FX effects, you’re comparing drastically different worlds. (Same for Americans traveling to Europe and, outside a few pricy capitals, generally finding a cheap, luxurious holiday.)

Re: Why does Swiss cheese have holes?

#125

Post by JumpCrisscross »

thomasmg wrote: post #121
slibhb wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Search Google maps for "bakery" and sort by rating. It's not hard to find a good bakery in any dense area in the US. I have to imagine people claiming otherwise are indulging in Yankee-bashing, a favorite European pastime.

What one considers a "good bread" or "good bakery" depends on the person. I'm from Switzerland. When I was in the United States (Bay Area, San Francisco), in 2000-2003, I did _not_ find what I consider a "good bread". I did find "bakery".

> When I was in the United States (Bay Area, San Francisco)

The good bread is in the Santa Cruz mountains. In San Francisco, I’ve only had it in wealthy homes where home staff made it fresh that day.

Re: Why does Swiss cheese have holes?

#126

Post by Magmalgebra »

rootusrootus wrote: post #70
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why on Earth would they intentionally export only their garbage cheese? This usually happens when one population is discerning and the other is not.

I don't know what to make of that statement. It is arrogant, at least. Are you trashing just the 340 million people in the US with this comment, or everybody not-Swiss?

Standards come from a mixture of culture and attention. The reason SF pizza is so much worse than NY pizza is that SF does not have culture of high quality pizza (I say this as an SF native). Conversely we have higher standards for Sourdough. Seoul has higher standards for Kimchi, you get the idea.

Everywhere is like this to some extent - no people can be an expert in all things.

Re: Why does Swiss cheese have holes?

#127

Post by JumpCrisscross »

murukesh_s wrote: post #97
Insanity wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question.. where? Most bread seems to be high in additives and promoted as a “healthy food”, like additional vitamines etc. And even when buying natural bread without these added “benefits”, it often has high levels of sodium (up to like 200mg per slice). Bread is one of the easiest, most plain things to make, yet finding high quality bread isn’t straightforward in the States. But I do really want to know whic…

Wondering why someone did not solve the problem already? Of all the countries in the world US is brimming with entrepreneurs who want to "solve" a consumer problem, and with modern population I assume there is enough demand on fresh/healthier products - why on earth someone wouldn't try to fix it there?

> why someone did not solve the problem already?

Most Americans are fine eating stale or preserved bread. (Almost all pre-sliced supermarket bread is the latter.) You just don’t have enough people to spread the cost of baking fresh bread throughout the day outside wealthy communities.

That said, a lot of European bread is also trash. There are simply some bread-loving ones where it isn’t. Similarly, there are places in America with great bread (New Orleans, New York and Miami), and places without (Northern California and the Midwest).

Re: Why does Swiss cheese have holes?

#128

Post by mymacbook »

chris_va wrote: post #24

> Properly formed eyes are a mark of quality. Except when I asked someone who makes cheese in Switzerland, they told me almost the opposite (and mostly that they export the junk cheese to the US and keep the good stuff). As an aside, what are the odds this article was written by AI? It has that feel (minus random bolding and bullet points).

I don’t think this is true, wherever I’ve traveled the opposite has held - the finest materials are exported which is sad for the locals. Right away Wool stuck out as an example from Peru. I naively thought that going to Peru would guarantee me the finest wool at the best prices. Anyway I’d like to see some data that backs up the claim that junk Swiss cheese is exported to the US market successfully.

Re: Why does Swiss cheese have holes?

#129

Post by JumpCrisscross »

pclmulqdq wrote: post #96
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that are baked and stocked daily But not multiple times a day. A New York bagel noticeably stales after a couple hours. Baguettes are the same, by the way. The little handies? If made plainly, correvtly, they change immeasurably once they cool. When perishability is measured in tens of minutes’ intervals, your economics require a large city of aficionados. (Not applicable to cheese, obviously.)

Most good bakeries everywhere stock multiple times a day as stock gets low. Even the ones selling American baked goods and things like cupcakes because all of these things have shelf lives of hours. Do you believe that New York is the only place in the US where you can get a baguette or a loaf of French bread? Do you think it's the only place you can get a cake? Having high foot traffic and understanding supply and d…

> Most good bakeries everywhere stock multiple times a day as stock gets low

The stuff that sells. In most bakeries, that doesn’t cover bagels.

> Do you believe that New York is the only place in the US where you can get a baguette or a loaf of French bread?

Nobody claimed this.

> high foot traffic and understanding supply and demand are not unique to New York

It absolutely is. New York has entire American cities’ worth of people in single city blocks. That drives niche culinary diversity in a way that’s impossible to sustain anywhere else in America.

> Many cities around the US are plenty dense to support people who make high-quality baked goods

Again, never contested. But not as wide a variety. You can’t profitably make every sort of baked good fresh every few hours in a town smaller than a few hundred thousand. You can find that within walking distance for bagels, cubanos, naan and dumplings in a lot of Manhattan.

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