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Project Amplify: Powered footwear for running and walking

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Re: Project Amplify: Powered footwear for running and walking

#121
post #104
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds like a gross generalization of cyclists—I hope everyone’s friends aren’t this petty! I’ve gone on plenty of rides on an e-bike/not on an e-bike with folks doing the opposite and have never felt ostracized or made others feel ostracized. As other commenters posted, it gets even more people out on the paths who wouldn’t normally be able to keep up or might feel self-conscious, and I think that’s a really po…

I must admit I don't interact with all kinds of cyclists. My circle of cyclists are the ones who like indoor cycling as much as going outdoors, and they almost always have a power meter and like to challenge themselves for power PRs, and they tend to be Strava Premium users.

Sounds insufferable.

Re: Project Amplify: Powered footwear for running and walking

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People with pedal-assist ebikes do more work and ride them for more distance than people with acoustic bikes. Less gatekeeping, more celebration: imagine being Pogi and being able to crank 300 watts for hours on end. It would make touring the countryside a joy!

I don't think this is really true in general. When you climb a pass, the distance and elevation are fixed; the ebike riders buzzing by at twice your speed are not doing more work than you - they are avoiding some of the work inherent in the climb.

On a particular climb, sure: energy is conserved, but this is a curb-cut effect. It's easier to make a little jaunt on an ebike, so people are more likely to use their ebikes to take that little jaunt.

More rides, for more distance. The integrated effect is more energy expended.

Re: Project Amplify: Powered footwear for running and walking

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You could refuse to use an e-bike just like you could refuse to use an expensive bicycle. I don't know if we are talking about the same thing. I am taking the argument from OP about "people recovering from surgery might need electric assist to keep up with the A-group", and I'm questioning this need . If someone wants to have some assistance, then by all means go ahead and use it. I'm just not seeing why someone wo…

"Need in order to" is a common construction in English. It refers to a necessary condition, without placing any absolute constraints on the necessity. (Who's to say how the absolute "need" is defined? Do we need to live? Do we need good food, positive social interactions, exercise, shelter?)

> "Need in order to" is a common construction in English.

I was paraphrashing. OP's original comment said "For some guys a high-end electric assist bike is how they stay riding with the A-group while they're recovering."

What I question here is, simply put, why "stay riding with the A-group" is in any way important? While one is recovering from surgery, what is so bad about riding with a B-group? Or why not ride with that A-group, but for a shorter distance?

Re: Project Amplify: Powered footwear for running and walking

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People with pedal-assist ebikes do more work and ride them for more distance than people with acoustic bikes. Less gatekeeping, more celebration: imagine being Pogi and being able to crank 300 watts for hours on end. It would make touring the countryside a joy!

I don't think this is really true in general. When you climb a pass, the distance and elevation are fixed; the ebike riders buzzing by at twice your speed are not doing more work than you - they are avoiding some of the work inherent in the climb.

I think the key factor is amount of rides. On a one to one comparison, obviously an ebike is less work but how much more often are ebike riders riding?

I don't own one but there have been plenty of times in my life where I go somewhere ina car that's in biking distance but don't because maybe there's a decent hill on the way and I don't want to arrive sweaty.

The easy ride an ebike offers opens up more opportunities to ride.

Re: Project Amplify: Powered footwear for running and walking

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this is really true in general. When you climb a pass, the distance and elevation are fixed; the ebike riders buzzing by at twice your speed are not doing more work than you - they are avoiding some of the work inherent in the climb.

I think the key factor is amount of rides. On a one to one comparison, obviously an ebike is less work but how much more often are ebike riders riding? I don't own one but there have been plenty of times in my life where I go somewhere ina car that's in biking distance but don't because maybe there's a decent hill on the way and I don't want to arrive sweaty. The easy ride an ebike offers opens up more opportunities…

Ding ding ding! It's a curb cut

Re: Project Amplify: Powered footwear for running and walking

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Friendship and other social connections?

What value is a friendship or connection that can not withstand a few months of "for the next months I will ride with some slower group" or "I may join you for the beginning but I can not go all the way"?

What a weird take. It's not a case of "withstanding" a friendship, it's a case of enjoying some time with your buddies. If you enjoy spending time with the people you usually ride with why wouldn't you if given the ability to do so?

Re: Project Amplify: Powered footwear for running and walking

#127

All the "athlete" and "farther" and "faster" talk is all well and good, but kids are going to buy these, hack them, and use them to create the next generation of impossible dance moves.

Two possibilities can be true at once. I look forward to seeing both

Yep that's why I said "all well and good" instead of "total hogwash" or the like.

Re: Project Amplify: Powered footwear for running and walking

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this is really true in general. When you climb a pass, the distance and elevation are fixed; the ebike riders buzzing by at twice your speed are not doing more work than you - they are avoiding some of the work inherent in the climb.

If they're going twice your speed, they can go twice as far. Assuming they're personally providing at least half the power over the course of the bike ride, they're expending identical calories to you, possibly more to compensate for their heavier bike. It's true that the moment-to-moment intensity is lower, but lowering intensity is some of the most common advice given to people struggling to get into a sport withou…

They can't go twice as far if the ride is up a defined climb. One you do the distance, that's it, you reached the pass, you can now only coast back down to the base.

In my experience, those on e-bikes are older and less fit in general, so it's not a matter of them making up for the work in volume; it's more that they couldn't do the climb at all without the assistance.

Also, your assumption about them providing half the work is surely wrong. Even basic ebikes provide 250W; some models provide double or triple that still. The rider provides probably 125W at most, so a third or less of the total power.

Re: Project Amplify: Powered footwear for running and walking

#129
post #14

I don’t get the point. Maybe there’s a therapy angle? But otherwise if someone wanted to go faster they could go to a bike, e-bike, or car.

Bikes and cars are modes of transport. They're optimal for getting around at high speeds, but when you don't need them, you need to leave them somewhere, they're large and not very convenient. On the other hand, these are shoes. You put them on in the morning and can wear them anywhere outside, they're not separate things you need to handle. I can definitely see demand for this from people who walk all day long for t…

For that matter, I could see walking more if this kind of assist meant that more places are suddenly within walking range now in terms of one's capacity to get there without exhausting oneself.
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