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Americans can't afford their cars any more and Wall Street is worried

telegraph.co.uk

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Re: Americans can't afford their cars any more and Wall Street is worried

#121

Post by cudgy »

kristopolous wrote: post #105
potato3732842 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It couldn't compete. Those cars were shit, just like the Chevettes they were competing against. It was all shit. All of it. The imports were typically slightly more expensive to boot. They sold well because you could get a Civic or whatever with a nice radio and they had a bunch of them on the lot in automatic and all the other things buyers cared about beyond just A to B because for the Japanese automakers shit was…

That's not the point. It was that the market hypothesis of supply simply responding to demand doesn't actually hold. People sell things based on their perception of future consumer sentiments, calculated margins, defensible moats, lots of things. If someone wanted a compact sedan but the only thing for sale was SUVs, they aren't going to be like "I refuse! Bus pass for me" no. They will just bite the bullet and purch…

Reminds me of the fashion industry … and manufactured consent

Re: Americans can't afford their cars any more and Wall Street is worried

#122

Post by 0xDEAFBEAD »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #108
vondur wrote: post #3

I’ve seen some crazy stories on YouTube about people trading in cars they’re already underwater on just to finance an even more expensive one. I can’t understand why banks keep lending money for deals like that.

> I can’t understand why banks keep lending money for deals like that. Because if they ever stop lending the music just abruptly stops. The entire US economy grinds to a halt and takes the entire world down with it. Even just raising the interest rates is enough to provoke cataclysmic events that wipe out billions and billions of dollars overnight. I can't even fathom what would happen if banks stopped lending money.…

>Because if they ever stop lending the music just abruptly stops.

Banks are altruistic actors who generously prop up the world economy by lending to non-creditworthy buyers? That's a new one for HN.

Re: Americans can't afford their cars any more and Wall Street is worried

#123

Post by JohnFen »

serf wrote: post #74
testing22321 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Soon you’ll want Americans to know how good healthcare is in other countries, or that people in many countries get paid time off to move home , or that people in other countries don’t go into crippling debt for education. No, no. THAT is not acceptable.

>Soon you’ll want Americans to know how good healthcare is in other countries there is a difference between 'good healthcare' and 'available healthcare'. the US has some of the highest quality healthcare in the world to those that it is made available to. the worlds' most rich and famous come to the US for treatment -- and the poorest in the US are among the most plentiful medical tourists to Malaysia and Thailand. I…

> The availability of healthcare is the favorite talking point of those with socialized medicine programs because.... the quality sucks.

Well, this isn't universally true. But regardless, the quality of care in the US sucks just as much if you aren't financially well-off. When you can get it.

> How many hundreds of NHS horror-stories are produced a year?

And how many thousands of horror stories are produced by the US healthcare system every year?

Re: Americans can't afford their cars any more and Wall Street is worried

#124

Post by techjamie »

vjvjvjvjghv wrote: post #67
giobox wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’ve seen some crazy stories on YouTube about people trading in cars they’re already underwater on just to finance an even more expensive one. This has happened for as long as there has been car finance (i.e. practically since the dawn of private vehicle ownership), it's nothing new. Given most folks cannot purchase a vehicle outright, the customer only really cares about the monthly payment, a sizeable amount of w…

"the customer only really cares about the monthly payment," I noticed this when I bought my Subaru. There was a young couple next to me that worked hard with the sales guy to get an acceptable monthly payment for their desired car. No thought about actual price or duration of the loan. I wanted to scream at them that they were making a big mistake.

When I bought my most recent car I drove the financing guy nuts because I kept going back to total price instead of caring about payments. Was clearly making him sweat a little bit.

Re: Americans can't afford their cars any more and Wall Street is worried

#125

Post by techjamie »

cudgy wrote: post #120
smileysteve wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And repossession is relatively easy.

But reselling them won’t be

It only has to sell for more than the remaining cost of the debtplus repossession and storage cost. Unless someone defaults on their payments very early into their term or totally trashes the thing, this should be achievable more often than not.

Re: Americans can't afford their cars any more and Wall Street is worried

#126

Post by micromacrofoot »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #84
micromacrofoot wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't even care if china is attempting to surveil me honestly, feels like there are already a dozen American companies trying constantly to collect my data so they can exploit me

> don't even care if china is attempting to surveil me Flip it around. You're in China. Would you want the CIA to have access to your life? Of course not, unless you're an idiot. Every intelligence agency has near-limitless utility for disposable stooges.

As a Chinese citizen, China would already be doing it and Chinese companies are willingly complying.

There's no difference to me. My government and its adversaries respect my privacy equally, which is to say they don't at all.

Even in cases of hostages, American citizens have been left languishing until a deal that satisfies both sides has been brokered. All governments view us as little more than pawns. I feel like I'd be an idiot to expect differently when there are dozens of examples of our government being outright hostile to innocent citizens, both directly and indirectly.

Re: Americans can't afford their cars any more and Wall Street is worried

#127

Post by micromacrofoot »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #101
potato3732842 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no universe in which foreign intel trying to blackmail you over some bit of info is worse than the local agencies doing the same.

> no universe in which foreign intel trying to blackmail you over some bit of info is worse than the local agencies doing the same You're comparing conditional probabilities without considering the priors. Given you're being coerced, it's worse to have that done by power close than power afar. The downside for the FBI blackmailing an American is significant. Of course it happens and has happened. But it's weighed. Th…

> The downside for the FBI blackmailing an American is significant. Of course it happens and has happened

In what sane society is this an acceptable point in conversation to be hand-waived away. The FBI has murdered American citizens in some cases and no one has faced any consequence. To me how is the FBI any different from the FSB at that point?

Re: Americans can't afford their cars any more and Wall Street is worried

#128

Post by silverquiet »

benterix wrote: post #119
tharkun__ wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. I usually have to remind the salesperson to stop talking to me in monthly payment terms. I always tell them to talk to me about final price including all interest. It's a bit of an uphill battle, where you have to tell them over and over. They're just so used to trying to sell the monthly payment. It's really no wonder that people that don't understand interest (many if not most) will fall for this. And if yo…

Temp beaters are not that bad, if you choose them wisely (like a boring 3-year old Toyota). Nothing fancy, no surprises, years ahead with just basic service. And a small crash will only break your car, not your heart.

How much cheaper is a boring 3-year old Toyota versus a boring brand new Toyota? Why would the person who buys a boring new Toyota unload it for a significant loss after just 3 years of ownership?

Re: Americans can't afford their cars any more and Wall Street is worried

#129

Post by wink »

NDizzle wrote: post #35

Why more people don't keep their cars long term has always been a mystery to me. Sure, I had plenty of them in my 20s when I was young without a bunch (3) of responsibilities roaming the earth. But currently, counting my oldest kid's (19) car, we have 4. I don't worry about any of them. 2008 Land Cruiser and RAV4, 175k on one, 185k on the other. Both bought used. 2013 Sienna, bought new (with a huge discount) - 161k.…

I wonder where you live though (not exactly, just: how is the climate, how are the winters?, what do you do that they are not generally rusting through after 10y?)

-- signed, some continental European without a garage

Re: Americans can't afford their cars any more and Wall Street is worried

#130

Post by rurp »

giobox wrote: post #11
vondur wrote: post #3

I’ve seen some crazy stories on YouTube about people trading in cars they’re already underwater on just to finance an even more expensive one. I can’t understand why banks keep lending money for deals like that.

> I’ve seen some crazy stories on YouTube about people trading in cars they’re already underwater on just to finance an even more expensive one. This has happened for as long as there has been car finance (i.e. practically since the dawn of private vehicle ownership), it's nothing new. Given most folks cannot purchase a vehicle outright, the customer only really cares about the monthly payment, a sizeable amount of w…

I had a car salesman tell me he'd never met anyone else who cared more about the total purchase price than the monthly payment. That might not have been true, but it's probably rare. It was pretty maddening how he kept trying to charge me more, but over a longer term loan.

It's crazy how many people do just look at the monthly payment. It's not like X price over Y years is complicated math or anything.

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