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Meta Superintelligence Labs' first paper is about RAG

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Re: Meta Superintelligence Labs' first paper is about RAG

#121
post #112

this was really weird to read: > But RAG is a very real world, practical topic for something as significant as a new lab’s first paper. I would expect exactly the opposite - that a new lab would put out a few random papers that happen to be in areas their researchers were interested in and already working on, and once people had been working together a while and developed some synergy they would maybe come out with s…

[deleted]

Re: Meta Superintelligence Labs' first paper is about RAG

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Hyperbolic statement about LLM capabilities with no concrete examples 2. Wild claim that the companies that sell LLMs are actually downplaying their capabilities instead of hyping them

Personal experience here in a FAANG, there has been a considerable increase in: 1. Teams exploring how to leverage LLMs for coding. 2. Teams/orgs that already standardized some of the processes to work with LLMs (MCP servers, standardized the creation of the agents.md files, etc) 3. Teams actively using it for coding new features, documenting code, increasing test coverage, using it for code reviews etc. Again, perso…

“Teams exploring how to leverage [AI]s for [anything]” is true for about a decade now in every large multinational companies at every level. It’s not new at all. AI is the driving buzzword for a while now, even well before ChatGPT. I’ve encountered many people who just wanted the stamp that they use AI, no matter how, because my team was one of the main entry point to achieve this at that specific company. But before ChatGPT and co, you had to work for it a lot, so most of them failed miserably, or immediately backtracked when they realized this.

Re: Meta Superintelligence Labs' first paper is about RAG

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was actually shown to not really work in practice.

I have seen this particular work example to work. You don't get the exact match but the closest one is indeed Queen.

Yes but it doesn't generalize very well. Even on simple features like gender. If you go look at embeddings you'll find that man and woman are neighbors, just as king and queen are[0]. This is a better explanation for the result as you're just taking very small steps in the latent space.

Here, play around[1]

  mother - parent + man = woman
  father - parent + woman = man
  father - parent + man = woman
  mother - parent + woman = man
  woman - human + man = girl
Or some that should be trivial

  woman - man + man = girl
  man - man + man = woman
  woman - woman + woman = man
  
Working in very high dimensions is funky stuff. Embedding high dimensions into low dimensions results in even funkier stuff

[0] https://projector.tensorflow.org/

[1] https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/WordEmbeddingDemo/

Re: Meta Superintelligence Labs' first paper is about RAG

#124

It's kinda funny, Meta has long had some of the best in the field, but left them untapped. I really think if they just took a step back and stop being so metric focused and let their people freely explore then they'd be winning the AI race. But with this new team, I feel like meta mostly hired the people who are really good at gaming the system. The people that care more about the money than the research. A bit of th…

> Labs used to hire researchers and give them a lot of free reign. I can't think of it ever really paying off. Bell Labs is the best example. Amazing research that was unrelated to the core business off the parent company. Microsoft Research is another great one. Lots of interesting research that .. got MS some nerd points? But has materialized into very very few actual products and revenue streams. Moving AI researc…

How many patents did that research result in that paid off in terms of use, licensing and royalties?

Re: Meta Superintelligence Labs' first paper is about RAG

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have an example that doesn't involve an objective metric? Of course objective metrics won't turn bad. They're more measurements than metrics, really.

> an objective metric I'd like to push back on this a little, because I think it's important to understanding why Goodhart's Law shows up so frequently. * There are no /objective/ metrics* , only proxies. You can't measure a meter directly, you have to use a proxy like a tape measure. Similarly you can't measure time directly, you have to use a stop watch. In a normal conversation I wouldn't be nitpicking like this b…

This isn't what Goodhart's law is about.

Sure, if you get a ruler from the store it might be off by a fraction of a percent in a way that usually doesn't matter and occasionally does, but even if you could measure distance exactly that doesn't get you out of it.

Because what Goodhart's law is really about is bureaucratic cleavage. People care about lots of diverging and overlapping things, but bureaucratic rules don't. As soon as you make something a target, you've created the incentive to make that number go up at the expense of all the other things you're not targeting but still care about.

You can take something which is clearly what you actually want. Suppose you're commissioning a spaceship to take you to Alpha Centauri and then it's important that it go fast because otherwise it'll take too long. We don't even need to get into exactly how fast it needs to go or how to measure a meter or anything like that, we can just say that going fast is a target. And it's a valid target; it actually needs to do that.

Which leaves you already in trouble. If your organization solicits bids for the spaceship and that's the only target, you better not accept one before you notice that you also need things like "has the ability to carry occupants" and "doesn't kill the occupants" and "doesn't cost 999 trillion dollars" or else those are all on the chopping block in the interest of going fast.

So you add those things as targets too and then people come up with new and fascinating ways to meet them by sacrificing other things you wanted but didn't require.

What's really happening here is that if you set targets and then require someone else to meet them, they will meet the targets in ways that you will not like. It's the principal-agent problem. The only real way out of it is for principals to be their own agents, which is exactly the thing a bureaucracy isn't.

Re: Meta Superintelligence Labs' first paper is about RAG

#126
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought Alex Wang was a very curious choice. There are so many foundational AI labs with interesting CEOs... I get that Wang is remarkable in his own right, but he basically just built MTurk and timed the bubble. Doesn't really scream CEO of AGI to me.

Alexandr Wang is not interesting and a few steps short of a fraud that Mark had to bail out because he was so co invested. Shareholders should be livid if they knew a single thing about what was going on.

Tell me more

Re: Meta Superintelligence Labs' first paper is about RAG

#127
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My theory is that as more people compete, the top candidates become those who are best at gaming the system rather than actually being the best. Someone has probably studied this. My only evidence is job applications for GAFAM and Tinder tho.

> Someone has probably studied this There's even a name for it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart%27s_law

Thanks for sharing. I did not know this law existed and had a name. I know nothing about nothing but it appears to be the case that the interpretation of metrics for policies assume implicitly the "shape" of the domain. E.g. in RL for games we see a bunch of outlier behavior for policies just gaming the signal.

There seems to be 2 types

- Specification failure: signal is bad-ish, a completely broken behavior --> local optimal points achieved for policies that phenomenologically do not represent what was expected/desired to cover --> signaling an improvable reward signal definition

- Domain constraint failure: signal is still good and optimization is "legitimate", but you are prompted with the question "do I need to constraint my domain of solutions?"

  - finding a bug that reduces time to completion of a game in a speedrun setting would be a new acceptable baseline, because there are no rules to finishing the game earlier
  
  - shooting amphetamines on a 100m run would probably minimize time, but other factors will make people consider disallowing such practices.

Re: Meta Superintelligence Labs' first paper is about RAG

#128
post #118
post #36

Can we have a more informative, less clickbaity, title?

What would a more informative, less clickbaity title be? (preferably using representative language from the article)

Meta Superintelligence Labs' first paper is about RAG

Re: Meta Superintelligence Labs' first paper is about RAG

#129
post #4

Interesting. All developers I know who tinkered around with embeddings and vector similarity scoring were instantly hooked. The efficiency of computing the embeddings once and then reusing as many times as needed, comparing the vectors with a cheap IMO vector embedding is the most important innovation in computing of the last decade. There's something magical about it. These people deserve some kind of prize. The ide…

Vector embeddings are so overhyped. They're decent as a secondary signal, but they're expensive to compute and fragile. BM25 based solutions are more robust and WAY lower latency, at the cost of some accuracy loss vs hybrid solutions. You can get the majority of the lift from hybrid solutions with ingest time semantic expansion/reverse hyde type input annotation with a sparse embedding BM25 at a fraction of the compu…

But it's much cheaper to compute than inference, and also you only have to compute once for any content and reuse multiple times.

Re: Meta Superintelligence Labs' first paper is about RAG

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vector embedding is not an invention of the last decade. Featurization in ML goes back to the 60s - even deep learning-based featurization is decades old at a minimum. Like everything else in ML this became much more useful with data and compute scale

Yup, when I was at MSFT 20 years ago they were already productizing vector embedding of documents and queries (LSI).

Interesting. Makes one think.
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