Zürich voters ban noisy leaf blowers • Hacker News Board

Re: Zürich voters ban noisy leaf blowers

#121

Post by masklinn » Mon, Oct 06, 2025, 1:33 PM UTC

lm28469 wrote: post #79

masklinn wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is, if anything, anti-functional: unless it smothers everything the litter provides nitrogen and nutrients as it decomposes. Getting rid of all the litter for that “perfect lawn” requires re-introducing nitrogen artificially (historically lawns would be grown with clover, the clover being a nitrogen fixer for the grass, that stopped being a thing when people started widely applying broad-leaf herbicides like 2,4D,…

100%, like cutting grass, all the stuff you cut and move out of your lawn is nutrients leaving your soil, do that long enough and you'll get dead soil, then you'll need to buy compost... which is made from the leaves, grass cuts and bio trash that you city charges you to collect. It's a perfect cycle really. > the lawn industry then labelled clover a weed to make killing it a goal rather than a negative side effect P…

Before the spread of broad-leaf herbicides and fertilisers it was just normal, you’d get clover mix at the grower or lawn care shop or your lawn seeds would come with some amount of clover mixed in.

Re: Zürich voters ban noisy leaf blowers

#122

Post by cafard » Mon, Oct 06, 2025, 1:33 PM UTC

In Washington, DC, gasoline-powered leaf blowers are forbidden. But less than an hour ago, I passed a powerful-looking one ready for use on a lawn nearby.

We finally bought a battery-powered leaf blower. This is really not for the lawn, which is relatively small and easily raked. Rather, my wife likes to remove the leaves from the garden beds. These are difficult to rake, what with shrubs etc., and one generally brings a good deal of mulch along with the leaves. We also have a strip of gravel to one side of the garage, and the blower makes it possible to remove leaves without gravel coming along.

And since you asked, the leaves end up at the curb. The city has a couple of collections every fall.

Re: Zürich voters ban noisy leaf blowers

#123

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Oct 06, 2025, 1:44 PM UTC

integralid wrote: post #115

delichon wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A better rake will help me outcompete a leaf blower as well as better shoes will help me outcompete a car.

I'll tried a leaf blower only once (it was when visiting family) and I raked every other autumn day as a kid. Leaf blower was... extremely painful to use, for me. It felt like it took me 2x more time to achieve what rake would do effortlessly. But a lot of it was probably familiarity with rake and a lack of skill with leaf blower. I am sorry ready to believe that technology progressed enough that leaf blowers are now…

[deleted]

Re: Zürich voters ban noisy leaf blowers

#124

Post by mike_hearn » Mon, Oct 06, 2025, 1:52 PM UTC

heyyeah wrote: post #94

sonnig wrote: post #67

Are many HN members in Zürich? I was suprised to see this type of news with so many points, though it's quite amusing to see the mixture of different topics in the front page.

Yes and I am also surprised to see this news here. (I voted yes to the restriction) We also approved an initiative for cheaper public transport which is cool.

Not cool. It's not like a vote makes it actually cheaper to run public transport. It just means the city will tax the sort of tech workers who post on HN a lot more in order to give the money to other people (who already get subsidized rent and other privileges), driving ever more out to Zug, and that the currently well functioning public transport system will decay due to underfunding and lack of capital investment.

Re: Zürich voters ban noisy leaf blowers

#125

Post by broken-kebab » Mon, Oct 06, 2025, 1:55 PM UTC

t8sr wrote: post #88

sonnig wrote: post #67

Are many HN members in Zürich? I was suprised to see this type of news with so many points, though it's quite amusing to see the mixture of different topics in the front page.

Zurich and its environs are basically the Bay Area of Europe. Probably explains the huge concentration of HN users.

While Zurich is definitely an important IT hub, but "Bay Area of Europe" stretches things a lot.

Re: Zürich voters ban noisy leaf blowers

#126

Post by apothegm » Mon, Oct 06, 2025, 1:57 PM UTC

tasoeur wrote: post #72

Maybe it’s just me but I wonder why western countries don’t implement noise limits for vehicles with sirens in residential areas (fire trucks, police, ambulance etc.). It always felt to me unnecessarily loud.

They’ve made them louder and louder over the years. That’s because cars have improved soundproofing to keep out the road noise of the tires against asphalt. But that also means it’s harder for drivers to hear sirens. Plus sound systems have gotten louder (in some cases almost drowning out sirens for people outside the vehicle as well as inside!)

TLDR: arms race against audibility for drivers, with residents’ sanity as the casualties.

Re: Zürich voters ban noisy leaf blowers

#127

Post by vel0city » Mon, Oct 06, 2025, 2:29 PM UTC

nopelynopington wrote: post #74

I live in a very leafy area with a lot of deciduous forest cover, so we're no stranger to leaves. I have never understood leafblowing. It seems like such busy work. It's not hugely common here but I have seen people carefully shepherding leaves into little piles on pathways, battling against the entropy of a light breeze. I'm sure there's a good reason but it always just seems like the ultimate expression of man tryi…

My main use case for a leaf blower is to blow lawn clippings off the sidewalks, paths, and roads back on to my lawn after mowing and trimming. Rakes aren't effective for such small trimmed parts.

My leaf blower is battery electric though so its a good bit quieter than the gas ones others use, although I do agree its still one of the loudest parts of my yard maintenance.

Re: Zürich voters ban noisy leaf blowers

#128

Post by hiq » Mon, Oct 06, 2025, 2:46 PM UTC

mike_hearn wrote: post #124

heyyeah wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes and I am also surprised to see this news here. (I voted yes to the restriction) We also approved an initiative for cheaper public transport which is cool.

Not cool. It's not like a vote makes it actually cheaper to run public transport. It just means the city will tax the sort of tech workers who post on HN a lot more in order to give the money to other people (who already get subsidized rent and other privileges), driving ever more out to Zug, and that the currently well functioning public transport system will decay due to underfunding and lack of capital investment.

> will tax the sort of tech workers

What sort is this? Do you mean top earners?

Even if it doesn't make it cheaper to run (I honestly don't know, it could be that there are economies of scale, if more people use public transportation?), people spending time in Zurich (including residents) could benefit if this leads to less people driving in Zurich, thus less air and noise pollution, and more pedestrian-friendly streets.

Indeed if it leads to less infrastructure investment it might worsen, but it's not obvious that this is what will happen.

Re: Zürich voters ban noisy leaf blowers

#129

Post by mike_hearn » Mon, Oct 06, 2025, 3:10 PM UTC

hiq wrote: post #128

mike_hearn wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not cool. It's not like a vote makes it actually cheaper to run public transport. It just means the city will tax the sort of tech workers who post on HN a lot more in order to give the money to other people (who already get subsidized rent and other privileges), driving ever more out to Zug, and that the currently well functioning public transport system will decay due to underfunding and lack of capital investment.

> will tax the sort of tech workers What sort is this? Do you mean top earners? Even if it doesn't make it cheaper to run (I honestly don't know, it could be that there are economies of scale, if more people use public transportation?), people spending time in Zurich (including residents) could benefit if this leads to less people driving in Zurich, thus less air and noise pollution, and more pedestrian-friendly stre…

There are never economies of scale to this sort of thing. Look at other cities to see what will happen. Germany has recent experiences, London too.

Zurich especially has no improvement potential here because it already does everything possible to force people onto public transport e.g. parking is heavily throttled, driving through the city is extremely slow. Transit is already saturated at peak times. There aren't armies of people driving cars around who would take the train or bus every day instead if a yearly Abo was only cheaper. Maybe a small number but not many.

> Indeed if it leads to less infrastructure investment it might worsen, but it's not obvious that this is what will happen

Of course it will lead to less investment! Not just of public transport but everything. This decision opens up a 185M CHF/year financial hole in a city of ~300,000 residents. It's already one of the most expensive cities in Switzerland, and the most expensive in terms of corporation tax. A full 25% of companies were already considering relocating out due to the high taxes.

Look at it like this. This decision is so bad that even public transit advocacy groups are criticizing it!

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/various/public-transport-critic...

> The public transport information service (Litra) and the public transport industry organisation Alliance Swiss Pass are also critical of general discounts. Public transport always costs the same, even if customers pay less – in the end, the taxpayer pays more, they said.

How bad does a decision have to be for the subsidized services themselves to tell you it's a mistake?

It comes on top of other catastrophically expensive recent socialist decisions like the 13th AHV, buying up so much housing in prime real estate and restricting it to low earners, etc. Where will the money come from? It will come from higher taxes on "high earners" like tech workers (ordinary tech workers). It will come from us. This vote increases the cost of public transport for us, and probably by a lot. It just won't show up on the ÖV bills.

Re: Zürich voters ban noisy leaf blowers

#130

Post by t8sr » Mon, Oct 06, 2025, 4:59 PM UTC

broken-kebab wrote: post #125

t8sr wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zurich and its environs are basically the Bay Area of Europe. Probably explains the huge concentration of HN users.

While Zurich is definitely an important IT hub, but "Bay Area of Europe" stretches things a lot.

Name one other place on the continent that has:

1) At least token engineering presence by every major tech company

2) Tech-savvy VC, legal, audit and tax services you can get on a short notice

3) A pool of talent to fill any engineering position

4) A funnel from a big engineering university to the industry that generates startups

5) Tax authorities willing to work through complicated situations like acquihires, IP riders in contracts for a consideration in the form of stock, etc.

It’s much smaller than the Bay Area, of course, but it’s the only place in Europe that has everything you need in one spot. (Except maybe London, but that’s more like the New York of Europe, minus the high salaries.)

Also, “IT hub” is a place where salaries are low and you plop down a call center. IT are the support roles that install antivirus, not a profit center. There’s a huge difference between that and a “tech industry.”