Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Social anxiety isn't about being liked

chrislakin.blog

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 230 posts

Re: Social anxiety isn't about being liked

#121

Post by nuancebydefault »

dkarl wrote: post #110
BurningFrog wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Men bond by saying nasty things they don’t mean. Women bond by saying nice things they don’t mean." I think there is some truth to this old saying. If so, it would make sense that both sides find the way of the other side a bit off-putting.

Eh... if you're fat, and your friends call you fat, they mean it. You're fat. They just don't mean for it to hurt, and that's the wholesome part. Every time they call you fat, they're showing you that it's okay with them that you're fat. If you're fat, and your friends tell you you're not fat, then to me that implies that the truth is too awful to say, but for your sake they'll pretend you're a different person. Whic…

Recently a lady was telling me that she wasn't taken seriously. When a male colleague proposed something that she proposed years ago, people suddenly accepted it, she said. I explained her about 'implicit pecking order' in company culture and 'he is taller'. Then she said "yeah i'm short". Then I said yes but you are perfect the way you are, and I think she appreciated that.

Re: Social anxiety isn't about being liked

#122

Post by dec0dedab0de »

abxyz wrote: post #47

The problem with using clinical phrases to describe normal behavior is demonstrated in this post. "Social anxiety" has a specific clinical meaning that is not covered by this post. The post is actually discussing a very natural and rational nervousness that normal people have in social situations. The post is providing a way of thinking about that nervousness that can help reduce it, for the nervous person's benefit,…

You can feel socially anxious without having social anxiety.

That is not true in plain English, just because a particular profession decides to use words one way, does not mean the definitions change for the rest of us.

Re: Social anxiety isn't about being liked

#123

Post by cortesoft »

xivzgrev wrote: post #49
cortesoft wrote: post #3

I hadn’t heard the word countersignaling before, but it matches something I had observed many years ago. My closest groups of friends always make so much fun of each other. We make negative comments about the worst traits about each other, the things that we are most self-conscious about… yet every time my friends make fun of me for something I worry about, I actually feel better and more comfortable with myself. Whe…

That's astute. I was always uncomfortable with this kind of joking. I felt threatened. The real reason was that I didn't have a good comeback. Let's say my nose was large, and a friend jokes about it. I need to say something back. And I could not think of anything. A low stakes situation becomes higher stakes than it needs to be. So on their side they see me struggle and probably feel bad, so they don't do it again.…

I don’t know if I have a clear answer to how I learned and practiced this. Probably a lot of simple exposure and observation. The important thing is the friendship comes first; I never make an insult joke to someone I don’t know well. I build a friendship first, then test out the waters with small jokes.

I also always start and focus on myself; I make jokes at my own expense often. A big part of my personality is a strange juxtaposition of bravado and self deprecation. I will joke about how amazing I am and how much of a failure I am at the same time.

It seems to work? I think people like me, generally? I don’t know man, I just wing it! I have no idea what I am doing, but I am also pretty great at not knowing what I am doing.

Re: Social anxiety isn't about being liked

#124

Post by CooCooCaCha »

mock-possum wrote: post #103
poemxo wrote: post #98

As someone with apparent social anxiety, I don't really care about being disliked either. Being left alone is the overriding priority by far, it is not an aversion to being disliked, although being disliked is not the best since it's still attention. If someone came to me and tried to mentor me about unlearning my discomfort with being disliked, I would feel like I'm being manipulated and I would make sure to avoid t…

Yeah same here. I like people, I like me - what I don’t like is the expectation that I essentially perform improv for others when I don’t want to. The problem is being observed, and expected to perform. It feels bad. Being left alone, with no risk of social interaction, feels really really good . It’s a literal relief from the constant energy expenditure that is acting out socializing. I’d prefer to avoid being disli…

I’ve never been good at banter so this speaks to me.

But it’s interesting to think that when people like you, they tend to want more from you and that leads to social obligations. And you can either go along with these social obligations or decline and come off as rude.

So in a sense, social connections give people some amount of control over your life and that can feel restricting and draining sometimes.

Even something as simple as a text message can be thought of as a task that someone gave you without your consent. And if you don’t respond within a certain time window then you’re rude and risk damaging the relationship. Or if you respond poorly that can damage it as well.

Sometimes I wonder if this is social anxiety or just being extra aware of the realities of life.

Re: Social anxiety isn't about being liked

#125

Post by nico »

dec0dedab0de wrote: post #122
abxyz wrote: post #47

The problem with using clinical phrases to describe normal behavior is demonstrated in this post. "Social anxiety" has a specific clinical meaning that is not covered by this post. The post is actually discussing a very natural and rational nervousness that normal people have in social situations. The post is providing a way of thinking about that nervousness that can help reduce it, for the nervous person's benefit,…

You can feel socially anxious without having social anxiety. That is not true in plain English, just because a particular profession decides to use words one way, does not mean the definitions change for the rest of us.

> just because a particular profession decides to use words one way, does not mean the definitions change for the rest of us

This is a particular pain in physics, which has taken very commonly used words and given them a very narrowly defined meaning, within a strict framework - like the words Energy or Work

Re: Social anxiety isn't about being liked

#126

Post by nico »

elevatortrim wrote: post #34

I have social anxiety and it is completely unrelated to likeableness. I do not think people would not like me, I do not try to avoid people disliking me, that's not the point at all. Quite the opposite, I'm sure I'm an interesting person and I'm confident people would like me if I could take the step. Problem is, there is something that physically prevents me from saying "Hi!" to a stranger. I literally cannot get my…

This is not a full solution, but it really helped me; the book The Charisma Myth

Every chapter has exercises that help deal with social anxiety

Even doing just the 3 basic recommendations in the intro can be very impactful

Re: Social anxiety isn't about being liked

#127

Post by Trasmatta »

cortesoft wrote: post #119
Trasmatta wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I don't do this at all, and I don't like being friends with those that do

I have many friends who I don’t do this with, because I know they don’t like it and it doesn’t work with them. I show my friendship to them by understanding the type of person they are and knowing that friendly ribbing is not for them. Would you mind being friends with someone like me? Or do you feel like engaging in that behavior at all, even if not directed at you, is enough to make you not want to be friends with…

I would gladly be friends with someone like you!

Re: Social anxiety isn't about being liked

#128

Post by dpark »

Yiin wrote: post #116
dpark wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Oh, could I? Well, your entire face is bad." > If they respond with another insult I seriously doubt they will. “Your entire face is bad” sounds like lashing out from a place of hurt. Typical response would probably be a confused or disgusted look followed by a change of topic. There are not a lot of people who could pull this kind of response off without coming off extremely weird or like assholes. And none of the…

just say it with big ass grin on your face, problem solved

Yeah but also no. This feels a like bit like “just be charismatic”. Someone asking how to respond to this sort of playful insult is unlikely to pull this off in any natural way.

I would think a better response for someone who does not know how to naturally respond to these sorts of playful insults would be to just absorb it goodnaturedly. “Haha, yep. I get this big nose from my dad.” Instead of continuing banter that is awkward, end it in a friendly way and move on.

Re: Social anxiety isn't about being liked

#129

Post by jives »

abxyz wrote: post #47

The problem with using clinical phrases to describe normal behavior is demonstrated in this post. "Social anxiety" has a specific clinical meaning that is not covered by this post. The post is actually discussing a very natural and rational nervousness that normal people have in social situations. The post is providing a way of thinking about that nervousness that can help reduce it, for the nervous person's benefit,…

Exactly right. And you might waste years of your life trying to "fix" social anxiety by attempting to change your mindset or trying to adopt new social practices. (Speaking from experience.)

Re: Social anxiety isn't about being liked

#130

Post by Etheryte »

ChrisLakin wrote: post #51
brad0 wrote: post #45

I've been reading through the book The Courage to be Disliked recently. I'm not a big fan of the writing style of the book, but some of the ideas in the book appear in this post too. One of the concepts in the book is being comfortable with being disliked. If instead you're trying to avoid being disliked, you're effectively subject to other people's whims. When you look at it from that perspective, that's a pretty st…

> I'm not a big fan of the writing style of the book OP here. I address that in How I'd rewrite The Courage to be Disliked: https://chrislakin.blog/courage

I can't help but feel that these criticisms, like many others of the book, are mostly down to cultural misunderstanding. The writing style of the book is deeply Japanese and that's off-putting for many, myself included. But for some, it's to the point where the forest is missed for the trees. I've read a few translations of it and some do a better job at conveying the idea than others, but they all feel clunky without the cultural context.

A good example of what I mean is your first suggestion, choosing a less triggering explanation for teleology. The idea of trigger words as we understand them, and the need to shield people from them, is not a universal cultural phenomenon. The suggestion feels a bit like visiting a country where they drive on the left side of the road and suggesting they try and drive on the right instead. Maybe the suggestion is good! But maybe not, without cultural context, the suggestion reads mostly like just asking for things to be made more familiar to you.

Post reply on HN