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Cormac McCarthy's personal library

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Re: Cormac McCarthy's personal library

#121
post #13

"McCarthy’s detractors, meanwhile, found his writing overly mannered, his characters overly masculine, and accused him of relishing the violence he wrote about so vividly." Yeah, maybe his detractors were on to something. I haven't even started "The Road" because of its reputation. I have only read "Child of God" and wondered why someone might write about the worst among us. But then I'm not a fan of Quentin Tarantin…

You don't have to love them, but dismissing two of the 20th century's great artists in their respective mediums while having a blog named "engineersneedart" is certainly ironic.

I don’t see the irony or any conflict. I just don’t celebrate the worst in humanity and have no desire to see it in art either. Perhaps I think the world is dark enough and that the better art inspires and can lift us.

I don’t “love” either artist to be sure. Is that also dismissive? I’m not sure.

Re: Cormac McCarthy's personal library

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haven’t read “The Road” yet, but I was able to take the time to read “Blood Meridian” this year— I don’t think I would describe the violence depicted as “relished.” It came across as vivid in an arduous, can’t-look-away-from-the-wreckage-so-bear-witness way, and I was really intrigued by how the Kid’s POV dissolves during the worst of it. And about “why someone might write about the worst among us”—the glory-seeking…

I think McCarthy is one of the greatest American writers, but I will say my two main gripes with him are his tendency to drift over the line into overwrought (sometimes the biblical language is incredibly powerful, sometimes not), and his utter inability to write women. He did ok with Alicia in his last couple books, but even there he flounders some. "If I had a baby I wouldn't care about reality"? Hmm, ok? "His face…

Watched a video essay yesterday by a female reader who found the Aunt’s four page monologue in ‘All the Pretty Horses’ one of the most insightful and moving explanations of women she’d ever read.

She was particularly surprised to find such a passage in a book by McCarthy who she expected to be some gruff man’s man.

I haven’t read that passage myself, but seemingly Cormac was capable of writing women when he chose to. Perhaps not enough, though.

Re: Cormac McCarthy's personal library

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve only read The Road and found it extremely difficult because of the nihilism. I put it down in the middle of it and stewed for 6 months before I picked it up again. I am so glad I did. I think his detractors are right, it is violent, nihilistic, masculine and whatever else. Through that the other side of the contrast becomes so vivid. Maybe there are better ways to get there. For me it hit. My daughter and I talk…

> I think his detractors are right, it is violent, nihilistic, masculine and whatever else. Thinking masculine is a criticism is quite a tell.

I think the toxic kind probably does deserve criticism.

Re: Cormac McCarthy's personal library

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No kidding. Try to find an "overly masculine" book among Pulizer or Hugo nominees today. And people feign to wonder where the male readers have gone.

Don't really understand this comment, I'm looking at the latest Pulitzer and Hugo winners and seeing what sound like pretty classic masculine tropes. James is about a man who escapes from slavery, fends for himself in the wilderness, violently avenges his wife and daughter, etc. Alien Clay is about a man who rebels against an evil government, is sent to a prison camp in space, bangs his boss (a woman), starts another…

There really aren’t that many books with genuinely masculine men. I haven’t read the ones you brought up, but usually it’s not the specific events in the story that matter- it’s more about the overall vibe, the way the character carries himself. And a lot of the time, that’s where the sense of masculinity just doesn’t come through anymore, at least not in any way a young boy could look up to.

Re: Cormac McCarthy's personal library

#126
Someone who enjoys this please enlighten me or show me a way into McCarthy's prose using examples of what's good. I tried several times to read his novels and I'm sorry, but it's just terrible. It's hard to put my finger on what is so unappealing. The closest I can come to what is bad about it is that it reads like farce without humor (if you take 'farce' to be a question of tempo, as in "tragedy sped up"). The opening to Blood Meridian (his masterpiece, I'm told) is just this endless stream of backstory that The Kid is supposed to have done or been but no exposition of anything. It sounds like the imagination of a 13yo boy playing with his GI Joes or super heroes. The fragmentary style and purply-pulpish register is very hard to take seriously. Where's the beef? Please post some passages that don't sound like common pulp fiction, unless that's what people are crowing about, in which case...I got nothin'.

Re: Cormac McCarthy's personal library

#127
post #126

Someone who enjoys this please enlighten me or show me a way into McCarthy's prose using examples of what's good. I tried several times to read his novels and I'm sorry, but it's just terrible. It's hard to put my finger on what is so unappealing. The closest I can come to what is bad about it is that it reads like farce without humor (if you take 'farce' to be a question of tempo, as in "tragedy sped up"). The openi…

    “Do you think we’re going to die?”
    “No.”
    “We’re not?”
    “No.”
    “Why not?”
    “Because we’re carrying the fire.”
    “What fire?”
    “The fire inside. Goodness. That’s what we’re carrying.”

Re: Cormac McCarthy's personal library

#128

I have loved Cormac's books since I was a child, but never read Larry McMurtry until recently. If you're in the same boat, I implore you to give one of the below a try. Lonesome Dove -- A great story about washed-up Texas Rangers with achingly beautiful writing. The Last Picture Show -- More tonally similar to Cormac's stories. Coming of age in a dusty Texas town. Leaving Cheyenne -- I have never in my life recommend…

I had confused the two. Knew of McMurtry through his son James, writer of songs like Choctaw Bingo and Can’t Make It Here Anymore.

Re: Cormac McCarthy's personal library

#129
post #126

Someone who enjoys this please enlighten me or show me a way into McCarthy's prose using examples of what's good. I tried several times to read his novels and I'm sorry, but it's just terrible. It's hard to put my finger on what is so unappealing. The closest I can come to what is bad about it is that it reads like farce without humor (if you take 'farce' to be a question of tempo, as in "tragedy sped up"). The openi…

“Do you think we’re going to die?” “No.” “We’re not?” “No.” “Why not?” “Because we’re carrying the fire.” “What fire?” “The fire inside. Goodness. That’s what we’re carrying.”

Not trying to piss on the fire but that's almost exactly the kind of thing I'm unable to enjoy. I guess I wonder "Who speaks like that?" It's wooden and affected to my ear. It comes across as needlessly obtuse. I'm not saying it's exceptional for that style, but to me it reads like so many YA fantasy novels from my youth, or maybe a /r/ for aspiring writers. If I'm being asked to work so hard to elucidate the symbolism or metaphorical content, then shouldn't I expect a little back in the form of beautiful English. If this were a poem (where obscurity is expected) I would say it's a meh poem just on the basis of not being very interesting. I get this is a father/son dialogue and maybe the terseness appeals to some, but I would ask those readers if that's how they talk to their own sons.

In the spirit of fairness, I found some fan favorites from /r/cormacmccarthy and if these are representative of his most powerful prose I don't know what to say:

"It was a lone tree burning on the desert. A heraldic tree that the passing storm had left afire. The solitary pilgrim drawn up before it had traveled far to be here and he knelt in the hot sand and held his numbed hands out while all about in that circle attended companies of lesser auxiliaries routed forth into the inordinate day, small owls that crouched silently and stood from foot to foot and tarantulas and solpugas and vinegarroons and the vicious mygale spiders and beaded lizards with mouths black as a chowdog's, deadly to man, and the little desert basilisks that jet blood from their eyes and the small sandvipers like seemly gods, silent and the same, in Jeda, in Babylon. A constellation of ignited eyes that edged the ring of light all bound in a precarious truce before this torch whose brightness had set back the stars in their sockets."

A "heraldic tree...left afire"? That's, er, not good. It's actually bad. And "auxiliaries routed(?) forth into the inordinate(?) day"? This is like the guy in the Community Arts writing class who gets a lot of praise but could really use an editor.

And the 'ands' are just interminable. And this and that and the other thing and one more and something totally different but also this and that. Good lord, someone give this man a period, or even a semi-colon. Here's another exemplar of a sentence that runs on more than the horses in it.

"That night he dreamt of horses in a field on a high plain where the spring rains had brought up the grass and the wild flowers out of the ground and the flowers ran all blue and yellow far as the eye could see and in the dream he was among the horses running and in the dream he himself could run with the horses and they coursed the young mares and fillies over the plain where their rich bay and their rich chestnut colors shone in the sun and the young colts ran with their dams and trampled down the flowers in a haze of pollen that hung in the sun like powdered gold and they ran he and the horses out along the high mesas where the ground resounded under their running hooves and they flowed and changed and ran and their manes and tails blew off of them like spume and there was nothing else at all in that high world and they moved all of them in a resonance that was like a music among them and they were none of them afraid horse nor colt nor mare and they ran in that resonance which is the world itself and which cannot be spoken but only praised."

"that resonance which is the world itself" is just royal purple prose.

I apologize for disliking something others like, it doesn't seem fair, but I get the feeling that Cormac McCarthy is one of those "favorites" for people who don't have a lot to compare it to. Anytime someone tells me their favorite author is Cormac McCarthy, I'm always tempted to ask, "Who's your second favorite?"

Re: Cormac McCarthy's personal library

#130

"McCarthy’s detractors, meanwhile, found his writing overly mannered, his characters overly masculine, and accused him of relishing the violence he wrote about so vividly." Yeah, maybe his detractors were on to something. I haven't even started "The Road" because of its reputation. I have only read "Child of God" and wondered why someone might write about the worst among us. But then I'm not a fan of Quentin Tarantin…

I hope, at least, you managed to watch the films before you had an opinion on them. Tarantino's, I mean. The Road is not a violent or pessimistic book, tho there is violence and pessimism in it. Don't confuse the set and the setting. Why write about, 'the worst among us'? Some art (and Cormac tottered over the line between wrought and overwrought plenty) is about finding meaning in the margins, in the edge cases. The…

FWIW, I've seen every one of Tarantino's films since "Reservoir Dogs".

I may give "The Road" a chance though.

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