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NixOS moderation team resigns over NixOS Steering Committee's interference

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Re: NixOS moderation team resigns over NixOS Steering Committee's interference

#121

Post by worik »

zahlman wrote: post #119
kiitos wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> Only a super-minority of far-right-wing autocrats, largely from the US, is thinking about this anachronistic garbage, have fun In fact I am an NDP voter from Canada, but believe what you need to. There is nothing "anachronistic" about pointing out the clear, well-evidenced facts about the racism that is demonstrably being perpetuated today.

> There is nothing "anachronistic" about pointing out the clear, well-evidenced facts about the racism that is demonstrably being perpetuated today.

You were cherry picking

I am a long way from the Americas (New Zealand), so I know little of the racism in the USA

But here the realisation that our dominant paradigms were based on racist and sexist assumptions has lead to an enormous flowering of culture. Don't knock it, it has made social conditions much better especially for young people (as economic conditions got much worse)

From this distance it looks to me that racism in particular and bigotry and prejudice in general in the USA are deeply entrenched and backed by violent fanatics on all sides. The reactionary bigots appear to have the upper hand for now, but it looks like it will not hold

I hope the USA can avoid the sort of violent conflicts of the 1860s, not looking good

Re: NixOS moderation team resigns over NixOS Steering Committee's interference

#122

Post by zahlman »

worik wrote: post #121
zahlman wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Only a super-minority of far-right-wing autocrats, largely from the US, is thinking about this anachronistic garbage, have fun In fact I am an NDP voter from Canada, but believe what you need to. There is nothing "anachronistic" about pointing out the clear, well-evidenced facts about the racism that is demonstrably being perpetuated today.

> There is nothing "anachronistic" about pointing out the clear, well-evidenced facts about the racism that is demonstrably being perpetuated today. You were cherry picking I am a long way from the Americas (New Zealand), so I know little of the racism in the USA But here the realisation that our dominant paradigms were based on racist and sexist assumptions has lead to an enormous flowering of culture. Don't knock i…

> I am a long way from the Americas (New Zealand), so I know little of the racism in the USA

Then how can you assert

> You were cherry picking

with any confidence? The ideology I refer to is all over the place. I am constantly finding new examples.

> here the realisation that our dominant paradigms were based on racist and sexist assumptions

I don't think they actually were.

> The reactionary bigots appear to have the upper hand for now

In my experience, the large majority of people accused of being "reactionary bigots" around here are quite simply nothing of the sort.

Re: NixOS moderation team resigns over NixOS Steering Committee's interference

#123

Post by Uptrenda »

Uptrenda wrote: post #9

Why do these useless Wrong Think police keep inserting themselves in open source projects? No one wants the drama they bring to their projects. People are just trying to build software... Open source is not a platform for forcing political and social views on people, and not wanting to be a part of that isn't equivalent to opposing it. If you're out there crawling open source projects: looking to insert "acceptable u…

You know, I watched people fight over this post for hours. If you tracked positive and negative total upvotes it would look like a sine wave. I'm kind of surprised it was so contentious though because my experience of politics at startups is basically everyone either pretends to have the same opinion as the founders (if they're openly political) or politics is made outright taboo. I think politics is something that really does invite a lot of drama and being flawed creatures as we are, humans have trouble being objective.

Can you imagine if HN allowed politics. I think most of us here would hate it. RN, hacker news feels like this nice little oasis and even when major political events happened you could come here and it would always have gems. I just think we would be happier if that applied to open source, too. I've often wished to have a plugin that just filters all political stuff from my screen. I will probably develop it one day.

Re: NixOS moderation team resigns over NixOS Steering Committee's interference

#124

Post by AlexeyBelov »

bbor wrote: post #103
refulgentis wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm really curious: can you share these definitions of left and right? > Yes, I know how to spell onlookers, as does my spellchecker. I don’t know what you hope to gain from nitpicking someone’s typos, but I encourage you to answer that question to yourself. Dare I say “nothing”? Geez, didn't know it hurt that much :) I'm 37 and still discover words I mis-spell and am grateful when people correct me. I get the need f…

Pretty funny that you accuse me of being overly political, but then say I'm a far left snowflake for returning a bit of snark. I think I'll have to bow out of this exchange, sorry!

It's a pattern for this user unfortunately

Re: NixOS moderation team resigns over NixOS Steering Committee's interference

#125

Post by kiitos »

worik wrote: post #120
kiitos wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> https://srid.ca/unwoke i mean, this is a set of opinions and positions that are far beyond anything that could be called "moderate opinion[s] on gender representation" and are pretty uncontroversially terrible, particularly in the context of any non-homogeneous community of people if you post something like this to the public internet and stand behind it, then man i'm not sure what you expect, you're self-identifyi…

> you're self-identifying as an asshole, This is tricky. Human rights exist for assholes. There is not much point of rights just for good people So long as they leave those opinions on their blog, and off the forums, should they be banned?

what?

private communities (which in this context would include any website that doesnt end in .gov) banning assholes, has no impact on the human rights of those banned assholes, it is not a human right that you get to have an account on a private website

in the same way that getting trespassed from chipotle for not wearing pants when ordering your burrito bowl, doesn't mean your rights have been violated

Re: NixOS moderation team resigns over NixOS Steering Committee's interference

#126

Post by alexey-salmin »

Macha wrote: post #108
paulvnickerson wrote: post #35

They should take a cue from sqlite and just adopt the Rule of St Benedict.

sqlite contributors are a closed group, while NixOS is a project open to contributors. It's a lot easier for 3 people to avoid conflict than 300.

From experience it seems that the best way to avoid conflict is to quickly ban anyone who demands a CoC

Re: NixOS moderation team resigns over NixOS Steering Committee's interference

#127

Post by zahlman »

alexey-salmin wrote: post #126
Macha wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sqlite contributors are a closed group, while NixOS is a project open to contributors. It's a lot easier for 3 people to avoid conflict than 300.

From experience it seems that the best way to avoid conflict is to quickly ban anyone who demands a CoC

I thought so too at one point, but now I'm skeptical. The demanders will keep filtering in, and random people unacquainted with past stories of CoC abuse may feel uneasy.

So I think the best way is to: be a BDFL, proactively have a CoC that reflects your values (and to hell with any standard formulations), and make it explicit up front that anyone who wants changes to the CoC can go kick rocks (or, you know, fork the project). And that they're welcome to do so, and won't be interfered with outside of the project's own spaces.

And people who don't like an existing BDFL, rather than trying to take over or start drama in project discussion spaces, should just fork ASAP.

Re: NixOS moderation team resigns over NixOS Steering Committee's interference

#128

Post by zahlman »

sunshine-o wrote: post #86

I don't really have much context and I do not know those people but every time this type of post pop up on HN I read it. It is obvious those people are mentally ill and terminally online. And it is not even about politics and woke, I do not think there were any political statement here. It is just obvious this again was written by a crazy person. So some people had a problem with the Nix leadership for years, they ma…

> And it is not even about politics and woke, I do not think there were any political statement here. It is just obvious this again was written by a crazy person.

There may not have been political statements here but the people doing this absolutely are motivated by their politics.

> But strangely none of those forks really got any traction or are going anywhere it seems... I am wondering why are those unhappy contributors helping the Lix project or some other forks?

Presumably they aren't helping forks because they despair of any fork getting anywhere near the traction of the original.

But that shouldn't be NixOS's problem.

Re: NixOS moderation team resigns over NixOS Steering Committee's interference

#129

Post by refulgentis »

AlexeyBelov wrote: post #124
bbor wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty funny that you accuse me of being overly political, but then say I'm a far left snowflake for returning a bit of snark. I think I'll have to bow out of this exchange, sorry!

It's a pattern for this user unfortunately

Source for this claim?

(mods: went back 3 months, have had 0 interaction with them. account is used regularly to harass people in ways similar to this, short and restrained so it doesn't sound undeserved, yet, people express similar bafflement to me)

Re: NixOS moderation team resigns over NixOS Steering Committee's interference

#130

Post by worik »

zahlman wrote: post #122
worik wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is nothing "anachronistic" about pointing out the clear, well-evidenced facts about the racism that is demonstrably being perpetuated today. You were cherry picking I am a long way from the Americas (New Zealand), so I know little of the racism in the USA But here the realisation that our dominant paradigms were based on racist and sexist assumptions has lead to an enormous flowering of culture. Don't knock i…

> I am a long way from the Americas (New Zealand), so I know little of the racism in the USA Then how can you assert > You were cherry picking with any confidence? The ideology I refer to is all over the place. I am constantly finding new examples. > here the realisation that our dominant paradigms were based on racist and sexist assumptions I don't think they actually were. > The reactionary bigots appear to have th…

>> our dominant paradigms were based on racist and sexist assumptions

> I don't think they actually were.

Open a book!

The dscovery doctrine

In the USA there is westward expansion, both genocidal and racist

Women have only been entitled to equal pay since the 1970s in most places

Indigenous Australians were only considered fully people in the 1960s

Most European countries restricted the rights of Jews until mid nineteenth century (or worse)

The Tasmainian genocide

In New Zealand the invasion of the Waikato

Canadian Christian schools

In New Zealand Māori were denied university education from about 1880 until the 1970s (a very few snuck through, some pretending they were foreign)

It was legal to rape your wife until very recently

When a woman married she had to resign her job (my grandmother)

Until the 1960s in NZ a married woman needed her husband's permission for a bank loan

On and on, from my memory banks. I am no historian nor sociologist so I may have buzzed some details, but you should get the point. The West's dominant paradigms are historically deeply racist and sexist.

More generally it is prejudice and bigotry

Whatever, you should see why DEI, even if it has become a box ticking farce, it has deep roots in desperate need

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