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ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

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Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#121

Post by ddalex »

tomkarho wrote: post #84
haolez wrote: post #3

I think the challenge for society here is not to simply reject attempts like this, but how to prevent them from being pushed over and over until a specific context allows it to be approved.

The only way I see to prevent the constant pushing is that every single time some council or committee presents something like this every single of one of their private communication gets leaked for everyone to peruse at their leisure from whatsapp to bank statements. They want to erode people's privacy? Let them walk their talk first and see how that goes.

No, you silly man, the politicians are protected from this law, this is just for the plebs.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#122

Post by simianparrot »

haolez wrote: post #3

I think the challenge for society here is not to simply reject attempts like this, but how to prevent them from being pushed over and over until a specific context allows it to be approved.

The only real option is to get your country to leave the EU. An unelected cabal of people making sweeping decisions for countless member states isn't democratic, so yeet it while you can.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#123

Post by happyopossum »

layer8 wrote: post #61
hn-ifs wrote: post #35

Out of interest, what happens in the case of say an open source chat app developed outside the EU. Let's add that the developers are anonymous too, like truecrypt. What power does this legislation have then?

App stores that operate in the EU are subject to EU law, and can be forced to remove noncompliant apps.

Ahh, but they’ve already mandated side loading to piss off apple! Bit of an own-goal there.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#124

Post by Bender »

randomNumber7 wrote: post #29

What would prevent me from writing my own program to do something simple like sending encrypted messages? Or just emails...

What would prevent me from writing my own program to do something simple like sending encrypted messages?

Nothing. That is, nothing until your application becomes popular. I will keep encrypting my emails and they can pound sand once legislation for this makes it to my country. It should be a while before these shenanigans are in every distribution or kernel for Linux.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#125

Post by varispeed »

To me this is simply an act of terrorism. People who are behind those proposals should be charged and face trial.

There is no excuse for this and it is a stain on EU history for even letting this go so far.

Anyone proposing this should not only be sacked but also referred to de-radicalisation / anti-terrorism programme in their country and forever banned from holding any kind of public sector office.

There is no excuse.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#126

Post by RajT88 »

happyopossum wrote: post #112
delusional wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean like the mass surveillance already implemented by Google, Facebook, Apple, Microsoft, and Amazon? That's already here. I think you should consider that this law might be aiming at some other goal.

> You mean like the mass surveillance already implemented by Google, Facebook, Apple, Microsoft, and Amazon? No, GP is referring to mass collection and analysis of all of your communications. Google, Apple, et. all don’t have that capability today. Hell, apple can’t even read my text messages, nor do they know I’m writing this - and I’m doing it on an iPhone.

You only believe that because you have chosen to believe it.

Take Facebook end-to-end encrypted messages for example. There are certain links it won't let you send, enough though it is supposedly E2EE. (I've seen it in situations like mentioning the piratebay domain name, which it tries to auto-preview and then fails. Hacking related websites as well I've seen the issue with.)

It likes to pretend it is a mysterious error, but if you immediately send a different link, it sends just fine. I don't use chat apps much these days, so I'm not sure if others see similar behavior, but I'd wager some do. Facebook is about the least trustworthy provider I'm likely to use, FWIW, so I expect a certain amount of smoke and mirrors from them.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#127

Post by varispeed »

dcanelhas wrote: post #14

I wonder where platforms like slack would land in all of this, and how would they go about akeeping people from just using their own encryption e.g. pgp over unencrypted channels? Is public key cryptography too weak to matter?

You are already looking for workarounds like people struggling under authoritarian regimes.

This is completely unacceptable.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#128

Post by bapak »

justapassenger wrote: post #113
mnls wrote: post #95

The fact that EU politicians exclude themselves from the ChatControl is all you need to know about this.

Source on that?

From TFA

> the proposed legislation includes exemptions for government accounts used for “national security purposes, maintaining law and order or military purposes”. Convenient.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#129

Post by meta-level »

1gn15 wrote: post #117
meta-level wrote: post #96

Can anyone explain to me what keeps anyone who doesn't want to be monitored from just sending PNGs (or similar) containing messages encrypted in each pixels LSBs? Doesn't all that just force everyone who has something to hide to use something else, less obvious?

Probably friction. Will you be able to convince your friends to do that?

No, probably not - but those bad guys with all their child porn and terrorist plans won't mind the friction (those will either encrypt or become EU politicians).

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#130

Post by tick_tock_tick »

kypro wrote: post #22
contravariant wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The accepted solution is to have a constitution that says otherwise. Which is a bit complicated here, as the EU has no real constitution and this 'law' (really a regulation) is a blatant violation of the constitutions of countries that did choose to establish secrecy of correspondence.

I've commented this elsewhere, but rights in the US are generally much more absolute than here in Europe. For example, in the EU you technically have the right to freedom of expression, but you can also be arrested if you say something that could offend someone. Similarly rights to privacy are often ignored whenever a justification can be made that it's appropriate to do so. I don't know about elsewhere in the world,…

> For example, in the EU you technically have the right to freedom of expression, but you can also be arrested if you say something that could offend someone.

So you actually don't have freedom of expression?

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